How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

It doesn’t matter whether you agree or not, it’s still what’s best for a child (excepting obvious things like bereavement or one parent having left the other due to abuse etc).

I have no issues with it, they'll get to experience the most amazing things! Being faced with adversity through your relationship, you can give them a good rounding to be more accepting of what people perceive as 'different' and make it normalised as it bloody well should be!

It is sad you've lost a friend due to this but that clearly means they were not a true friend! A true friend would be happy for you all regardless and be excited for you and your future 😘 x

No. I didn't make it up.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378378224001415

Two loving parents, what can be the problem?

a child in my 5 year old sons class has 2 mums, my son thinks it’s amazing she has two mummy’s 🤣 and told me incredulously about it one day.

I think people should separate their issues with surrogacy from the fact it's the most common way for gay men to become biological parents. Other people do use surrogacy too; heterosexual couples and single people of both sexes can take a "great egg" and put it in a "healthy but tested womb", and get someone to have them a baby.

What if "the mother's way" is wrong / dangerous?
Some people have a lack of common sense.
I have read many parenting threads where the "mum" uses hot water from the kitchen tap to make formula and defends it.
Also, microwaving formula/milk/breastmilk are practices I've seen defended.
I beg to differ that a mother's way is always best.

Two loving parents is very important.
But the facts are that studies show many developmental benefits to having a father figure.

I don't care if it's not their actual father but agree it's beneficial.

@Corneliusthecamel my lovely neighbours are two mums and their daughter is a delight. I don’t care what the parent ration consists of or the numbers involved… is the child happy and healthy and loved. Are their needs met? That’s all I want to see.

“What’s best for the child” in YOUR opinion

I think it’s fine though I think optimally you want children to have access to positive role models of both sexes in their lives so as long as that is available to them then great. 🤷‍♀️

I don't think it's homophobia, it's knowledge of bad male behavior. If there is parental sexual abuse, it's almost always (like 99%) the father, not the mother (although, I'm aware that women do emotionally and physically abuse children). Also, and this is generalizing, women tend to be more nurturing and intuitive about childrearing. Whether that's socialization, genetic or a combo of the two, it still stands to reason that children, overall, are better off w/ a woman than a man. It's not about same sex parenting as it is that most kids do better if they at least have a mother figure in their lives. Obviously, there are exceptions to this, and I was lucky to have the world's most loving and kind father, so my opinion is not from a negative personal experience.

It's why most parents (dads and moms) will prefer the female nanny, the female babysitter, the female preschool teacher. If my daughter wanted a sleepover with a friend whose parents I didn't know, I'd feel far safer sending her to two moms than a single dad or two dads.

Yes, this is a weird one . Op said her wife was listed on the birth certificate as parent before they got married which gives her legal parenting rights apparently. But she’s not adopted her so it seems she’s no more than a step mother really . How would this really work out if they split . Would she really have access rights ? Not sure on that .

Agreed that surrogacy is mostly used by straight couples (but likely because there are simply more straight people in the world and half of gay couples are lesbians and are highly unlikely to use surrogacy)

Again, the fact that they are two men doesnt make the whole thing worse. That method of surrogacy has the most chance of exploiting someone along the way as more people are involved. That's why it's arguably the most ethically dicey. Not because it's the one gay men use, so their gender/sexuality shouldn't be relevant to the conversation if that's the only issue with gay men as parents.

Live your life. Love your family and enjoy your little girl OP

I had similar issues and lost a close friend when she took it upon herself to tell me I was wrong to marry my husband because he is a different religion to me. 9 yrs later I had grovelling apology text which I ignored. I'm over it but won't let them back into my life. It's not required.

We have children in DDs class with 2 mums/absent dads. Great, clever, well -rounded, kind children. NO issues.

Zero issues with the family set up. Donor eggs/sperm - as long as you and your wife are prepared to fully support your child if they struggle emotionally with that, want to seek out their donor parent, want to talk about biological parents, or may even be angry that they dont have a relationship with their father etc then ok. Children don't have a duty to hide their feelings to make their parents feel better, and a lot of kids and adults may struggle with not knowing their biological parent. So you need to be resilient enough to love them through that if necessary. That's true whether the child is conceived in a heterosexual or same sex family set up.

It might stand to your reason but it definitely doesn’t stand to mine. I don’t agree with anything you’re saying. I think it’s a shame that men are under represented in childcare and I think that’s more to do with the patriarchy than anything else - in the sense that it both makes it more likely that women will do often underpaid work and less likely that men will work with children. My brother is a teacher - he’s wonderful at it but he is often judged for choosing to work with children and it’s so depressing.

I purposefully chose nurseries and after school care that had both men and women as I want my children to have great memories of both, and my husband is just as good (or not!) a parent as I am. I can’t relate to anything you say here. many people make good parents and unfortunately many people don’t and I doubt there’s any correlation with their sexuality.

Yes. I think we agree on that. I believe two gay dads can be great fathers, as long as they don't use surrogacy.

They prefer it because they assume that having a womb means you're nice and kind and a little bit dumb. Women should rail against that.

I'm most definitely not saying that good parenting has anything to do with sexual orientation.

But I trust women w/ children more than I trust men. It is the patriarchy that devalues this work, so they should be paid a lot more.

I agree that people think that about women, but I also think parents prefer female caregivers because they make a risk assessment over who is safer.

I don’t agree with it.

Based on gender roles and stereotypes.

Think how many people find their MIL and even their Mums toxic and have gone "NC". Look at that whole thread recently where people wanted women to be accountable for the abuse they suffered and their children witnessed recently. If we really do count the times women haven't left abusive relationships as their own abuse to their children, then women are much more abusive than we acknowledge.

I don't agree with the "little bit dumb" bit, and wonder where that came from.

People don't want their kids looked after by people who are "a little bit dumb". That would be the first reason to reject a child minder in any circumstances.

No issue from me at all. Baby sounds lucky to have you both. I don’t have an issue with 2 dads either. I think any baby that was harder to come by than conventional means is extra cherished and appreciated.

I would encourage a same sex couple to ensure any child had contact with both sexes because different people bring different experiences and attitudes and I think a combination is best. But the more people who love and care for a child can only be a good thing.