How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

Any child with a loving and supportive caregiver is a lucky child. I do not give a single fk what that looks like in terms of gender, race, sexuality or if its adoptive parents, family members looking after the child.. whatever. As long as there's real love, honesty, trust, support, appropriate boundaries and guidance..
It would not enter my head to judge anyone for not having the traditional setup of a married man and women with their bio child. Because I absolutely know that some people in that setup are terrible parents with really unhappy kids. Because it's not about the setup it's about the actual parenting.

That’s a shame about your friendship - can you not talk about it and try to understand each other?

Will your baby have any relationship with its father?

There are many children in this world whose childhood isn’t as good as it should be, who are neglected or living with abusive parents .Having two parents who want and love their children is wonderful - the gender or sexual orientation of those parents is completely irrelevant .

Lucky baby having 2 parents who went to such lengths to have them. Millions of kids are brought up in trauma, broken homes, poverty, in foster care etc etc. What a life of privilege your friend has led to not see that. Good riddance to her.

Agree with this.

Absolutely 100% supportive. To me, the non- material things a child needs to be happy are love and reasonable stability. There is zero reason they can’t get that from two mums. And indeed, tragically, there is probably a higher probability of safety, due to the level of violence and sexual abuse within the male population as a whole.

I would hope you’ll make some effort to have positive male role models around, so she has a chance to experience what a healthy male-female relationship can feel like, giving her a good foundation, if she turns out heterosexual and building those relationships herself in adulthood. Or, if you go on to have a son, probably even more important. But that hope is no more or less than a million other hopes I would have for any child (to help them learn; to help them keep contact with their heritage; to give them a balance of stimulation and rest; to encourage them to read……), and I have no doubt whatsoever that you’ll already have thought of this, and if you disagree or can’t- fine! You’re the parents. No other parents need to do everything the way others think, so why would you?!

congratulations on your beautiful daughter- I’m glad you are all happy!

I think at least half the belief that husbands need training comes from the false belief that there is one way to do things with a specific baby and other ways are wrong.

I agree that 2 mums is great. Generally I wouldn't trust 2 men to look after a newborn baby (I wouldn't have trusted my own husband and my own father was only vaguely aware that he had children). I will make an exception for Oli Locke and Gareth though. They seem really lovely and grounded. I have seen one male gay couple be very transactional in the way that they treated the surrogate mother, with the baby being treated akin to a puppy and a doll. They, particularly one, was very attention seeking and immature. The other guy was much more grounded.

Me too!!! Might be just my experience of what a dad brings to the table but mine would be ferrel, hungry and illiterate without me!!!

I don't completely disagree with any part of surrogacy, egg/sperm donation or IVF and I see nothing at all wrong with same sex parents. I am glad that children have the right to know who their biological/gestational parents are. I don't think you should go ahead with donation/surrogacy if you object to having any contact with a biological child. I'm unsure if you should have the right to trace the children born of your donations/surrogacy. Probably not.

I think women should retain the right to change their minds and keep a baby they give birth to if that is what they want. I think the idea of forcibly removing a baby that could be raised by its gestational parent is worse than the upset caused to the parents awaiting adoption. I don't dismiss the horrendous agony that causes the potential parents - I just think that is the lesser of two evils.

A gay couple we are friends with well shocked me in their transactional discussion of surrogacy. It really put me off. They decided against it, but it gave me similar reservations.

I still think the ideal parental set up for children involves a happily marriage heterosexual couple, but I’d choose happily married over heterosexual. Where there is no dad a close male relative like a hands-on granddad or godfather can provide something akin to a fatherly relationship,

Generally there is only one way to do things with a newborn baby and the mother's way is always best. If you don't feed regularly/sterilise bottles, handle gently whilst supporting the neck, be extremely patient, ensure that the baby is dressed appropriately, that there is nothing that can cause them to suffocate or overheat, bath and change regularly and instinctively know when something is wrong, then you're doing it wrong. There is very little wriggle room for 'differing parental approaches' in the first year or so. After than, once you reach toddler stage, there is a bit more flexibility, but safety and predicting accidents is constant.

I disagree with those who say having a male and a female parent is the 'ideal' set up and actually find it quite bigoted. The ideal is two loving parents, full stop.

Love is what makes a family, whether that’s a traditional mum and dad, two mums, mum and stepdad, two dads, single mum, single dad or any other configuration. What matters is that the parents do best by their children and raise them well.

Congratulations to you and your wife OP!

I'd 💯 rather have 2 mum's than 2 dad's! (My OH is a shit dad so judging by his standards and probably tarring most men with the same shit brush 😅)

Parents who are Loving and actively interested in their children are the most important factors for me… makes no difference if it is a heterosexual or homosexual partnership.

I think it’s ok nurture wise but I will add I do think male role models are important and especially so in a set up with two women. Doesn’t matter whether child is boy or girl I think male role models and one male figure who they can have a really close relationship to is really important. Agree with all the pps saying I find a two dad set up not ok.

Curious just because I’ve not heard this specific opinion before - this ‘absolute right’ for a child to know their biological parents. What about rape? Or incest? Or some other horrible situation I can’t even think about? Do you think a rapist has the right to know their child? And the child is obliged to know about their creation if it will be traumatic?

not arguing just thinking about it as I have a friend who knows exactly how he came to be and it’s been a horrible thing for him. I feel like he might have benefitted from knowing less.

Feeding regularly can mean several things and all are correct as long as baby is nourished.

Yes you have to support the baby's neck, but other than that, the correct way is whatever way(s) the baby is comfy and safe.

Dressing appropriately might mean a whole "day" outfit, it also could be a baby grow and vest. Both are appropriate. Neither are right or wrong.

I come from a culture where we bathe our babies daily. I know many of you do not. As long as neither of our babies are suffering from skin issues as a result of our methods, neither of us are right or wrong.

I see many mothers as a midwife who don't know what is "instinctively wrong". They develop knowledge of their baby over time. They aren't doing it wrong and neither are dads who have to learn this either. They need to be given space to learn it without judgement or micromanaging.

There needs to be room for different parenting approaches if you want a co-parent, and not a disgruntled assistant who can't parent when you need them to.

Women need to stop thinking we're these magical maternal goddesses who know everything and their useless men know nothing. It puts us under pressure, let alone the men.

outraged and amazed by the homophobia here - I think I have actually reached my breaking point with Mumsnet now.

So my friend, a single dad because his son's mother died cant be a parent because he is male? Or is that OK because it wasn't his fault and it was a heterosexual relationship before she died? What if he has a relationship with a man now? Should he not be a father to his child or is he not allowed to be bisexual?

Sorry OP - I know a gorgeous lesbian couple with two kids. They each carried one and they have the same biological father who is involved in their lives. They are a beautiful happy loving family. two mums, two dads, one of each, step, half adopted as long as they're loved and cared for and happy your kids will do great.

I agree with this. Ideally, a child has a right to and should have a mum and a dad, i.e., 1 parent of each sex. I do believe that children of each sex get different things from each parent, and part of that is due to the sex of the parent.

I don't agree with surrogacy at all, and donor sperm also has its issues imo.

Obviously, the ideal isn't always possible as families break up, etc, and a loving, safe home is important, so better that than a dysfunctional/abusive 2 parent (1m,1f) family.

When it comes to adopting, again, I believe the best scenario is 2 parents, one male, one female, but in this case, 1 loving parent or 2 of the same sex is better than being in the care system.

What evidence do you have that reciprocal IVF (one mum carrying the baby made from other mum’s egg) is dangerous?! Did you just make that up? I did this. It is exactly the same process as any IVF procedure- the only difference is the embryo goes into a different womb…which functions in the exact same way as every other healthy womb in the world. We have a very healthy, happy little girl. It worked first time and there were no issues or dangers whatsoever

Am frankly bewildered at how many people are fine with two mothers but not with two fathers. There are many, many families who are not biologically related so any combination or 1/2 parents might not be biologically related to any combination of their children.

i know an absolutely beautiful family - two men adopted two brothers out of foster care. The boys had a terrible start and have many challenges because of it and their lives are infinitely better now that they have parents. Their apparently superior setup of one mother and one father were abusive and neglectful and frankly shocking and they were removed and placed with two lovely and loving men who had been married for years. I cannot see any problems with this at all.

That was easy. 😅

Why is sperm donation exploitative? In the US maybe but not anywhere else in the world.