How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

this. for days.

@Corneliusthecamel honestly, as long as the baby is well cared for, has its needs met, is loved etc then I really couldn't give a rats whether it's 2 dad's, 2 mum's, 1 of each etc.

And if she is a genuine friend she wouldn't care either

Children deserve a safe, loving home and family. What that looks like doesn’t matter one bit.

Big fan tbh
any committed relationship between two people have to be better of the child the fact that it’s two months is irrelevant

Mums !! Oops

I don't think two mums is a bad thing. The only thing that springs to mind might be that if one wasn't the bio mum, it might make it more difficult if they were to split.
But I find two men 'having' a child a bit hard to accept. Not the feeling I have about two women.

I understand and agree when it comes to surrogacy, but do you have an issue with 2 men adopting?

I have no problem with two women bringing up a child together (adoption or second relationship etc) but I do feel sad for the children of sperm donors as they won't have a relationship with their biological dad.

Name changed for this because it's such a delicate subject and I'm probably a bit on the conservative side.

Honestly I think the ideal situation is a loving and involved biological mother and father. But I acknowledge that "loving and involved" is not always the case when children are made the 'usual' way, either because the parents are together but one or both are unloving/uninvolved or because there is one absent parent somewhere down the line.

However, I'm slightly on the fence about whether it's fair or a particularly good idea to deliberately engineer a less than ideal situation re an absent father, whether that's single parenthood or same same sex couples, even when the mother is biologically related to and carries the child. Probably not, but then there are so many feckless fathers in "normal" circumstances I question whether the odds of an ideal circumstance in the traditional set up are compelling enough to properly take against that particular alternative given the primary bond is maintained.

I absolutely do not support surrogacy - for gay men, heterosexual couples or lesbians. Anyone. Because it involves the deliberate breaking of the maternal bond at birth in order to serve the desires of adults. I think it's unutterably selfish to knowingly and deliberately inflict that on a newborn for your own purposes.

Adoption is different because it's making the best of a less than ideal circumstance that has arisen through circumstance rather than being orchestrated for the benefit of adults. Re who adopts, I'm open to research re what works best for the children (which i think should be the only criterion) but if it's a choice between the care system and any loving substitute parent (single, couple, gay, straight, male, female) I would expect the latter to be better for the child every time.

Oh and I think that every child, in every circumstance, should have an absolute right to know who their biological parents are.

So I suppose i think it's always weighing a situation up against the alternatives to make a judgement. I think that the only criterion should be what is optimal for the child - adult feelings and wants and equality and 'fairness' should count for exactly nothing when considering child welfare.

I've thought this through as I've typed so fully expect that there are things I haven't thought of, but those are my immediate two cents! Interesting question, OP.

I fought for gay rights in the 80s and 90s and still do.

But my honest opinion is that a child should not be deliberately conceived to not have both a Father and Mother. Particularly if the child is not the sex as the parent(s). I don’t agree with sperm or egg donation either. I think it’s wrong to deliberately conceive a child who won’t know who it’s biological parent or parents are.

I realise a child can have crap biological parents, a Dad who pisses off or dies etc. But to deliberately and knowingly create a sub-optimal situation for a child I just feel is wrong.

I do not see this as a gay rights issue, but a child’s rights issues.

Too much emphasis is placed on the adults ‘rights’ and not the child’s.

I do not see this as a gay rights issue, but a child’s rights issues.

This.

Edited to say: I think homophobia - there's examples of real homophobia on this thread but also one pp who wants so much to support her gay son (understandably) she can't see the bigger picture - can make gay people feel that they are entitled to have a child rather than thinking about the best way to do it. I think it's just harder for gay people - pretty obviously - and sadly there are options available that make it easier/possible but those are not the right way to do it imo.

Do you not view adoptive parents as "proper" parents?
When the non biological parent is the legal parent it's different to a step parent relationship imo. For starters there's a guaranteed legal right to a relationship throughout their childhood due to parental responsibility which step parents don't have.

Jinx!

That’s a very patronising viewpoint.

How can you judge how the child feels growing up without knowing half their DNA?

Just because there are some children that are even worse off, doesn’t make these children ‘lucky’!!

I have no problem with parents of the same sex but as PPs have said IVF treatment should not be available via the NHS.
Babies/children need loving parents.
I am against surrogacy in all its forms too.

You did the best thing for your babe in the long run by severing that friendship.

Here should you wish to vent further (same sex couple mama’s to 3 over here 👋)

Two mums, two dads, one mum, one dad, who cares. As long as that baby is loved and cared for, and is witnessing loving, supportive, healthy relationships is all that matters.

This is interesting, because it relies on believing that a father and mother are the optimal choice.

I have both of those things, and one of them is useless. I’d prefer a child has loving present parents, of any sex than be born to suboptimal parents.

But children are biologically programmed to move more to the parent who is the same sex as them as they grow older. It’s how they are evolved to learn how to be a man or woman.

I don’t think it’s ideal, since time began a male together with a female have been creating and nurturing children

Bollocks to that ! Men have been abusing and knocking ten types of shit out of their children since time began, but as they have a penis you still see them as the 'ideal' parenting equation ?
Some men are great parents, some do an adequate job and some shouldn't be allowed to look after a houseplant without a care package !

Hi @Corneliusthecamel

since you’ve asked the question. I think it’s unfortunate if I’m honest.

Where possible, a child ideally should be brought up with a mother and father as I believe that’s the natural God mandated order of things.

I don’t have any issue with 2 women or 2 men raising a child. What I do have an issue with is donor sperm and eggs where the resulting child doesn’t know who they are. I think birth certificates should state the truth of who the birth/biological parents are. Just my opinion. I feel that’s fair to the child and anything else is rather selfish on behalf of the parents.

As long as you are good parents I wouldn’t care. Being a good parent is the most important thing. There are a lot of kids who would have benefitted more from having two mums than one deadbeat dad.

It depends what the alternatives FOR THE CHILD are!

Is there though really? What about Sara Sharieff? Mum disappeared, lived with dad and step-mum who beat her to death.