How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

I don’t have a problem with loving families however they come, as long as the baby wasn’t purchased!

However, a lesbian friend of mine who is now married to her long term partner was in a previous long term same sex relationship from college (we’re now in our late 50’s) and her partner had a baby with a friend acting as donor.

My friend was a SAHM for the first 5 years and had a very close bond with the little girl. Sadly, the birth mum (wasn’t very nice!) cheated and decided to move on with a new partner and take the little girl with her. She stopped my friend seeing the little girl instantly and there was nothing my friend could legally do about it. ☹️

@Corneliusthecamel I wish you and your little family all the best. 🥰

I'm fine with 2 mums, but I do struggle with a child not having any connection to half their biological family. I know adopted adults who struggle with this although in their case it obviously wasn't a planned situation, whereas someone choosing to go down this road is different.
We have fostered in the past too and so many kids struggle with not knowing their roots for whatever reason.
I'm not meaning every child needs a traditional family, two mums will do a perfectly fine job. But children should have knowledge of their fathers.

I think babies and children need love. They need stable caring adults. They need a primary attachment to 1, 2 or more core adults. They need to feel safe and loved. The sex of the various adults is pretty immaterial although a mixture in the group as a whole is probably an advantage.

BUT I live in a bit of a family community. It's a small village and I live on the same street as relatives so the kids in our family are close with a variety of adults. Not all are blood relations and none are treated any differently nor do they treat the children differently. I fed a nephew this week, my daughter hangs out at nannies a few times per week, my partner is out with my sister and her kids this weekend... We think it really benefits the children (and the rest of us) to be a group.

I'm very glad I was able to go via the conventional route, but know several sets of female and male same sex parents, and they are lovely and wonderful parents, and the children are loved, cherished and likely to go on to have wonderful lives.
I think the effort required means fewer children are born to same sex parents without serious commitment. It's a bit like buying a house for hetero couples. Not to be entered into lightly or without proper thought.
I do wish adoption was a more realistic option but it isn't. So many barriers yet so many young people in need of good parents.

How is it “not the same” as adoption? Surely that’s a double standard? If you adopt a child, typically neither parent has a genetic link but you are saying that you consider them to be parents but not a same sex couple (who conceive via donor sperm for example) to both be parents even though they have the same legal parental rights as someone who has adopted?

I’d think what a lucky baby.

I hope you are also going to help them to emphasise the child's heritage from their birth parents, or if relevant encourage them to have their child's dad in their lives.

I have reservations, sorry. I'm a child-free lesbian and I certainly wouldn't have fallen out with a friend who made the decision you made but I'm not really on board with it.
I don't the NHS should or can be expected to pay. I don't think the NHS should pay for a number of things and fertility treatment is just one of them. I understand how unfair that sounds.
I worry about the non-biological mum and think she could have her role downgraded by others. I think it could potentially be tough for her.
I think a child should ideally know their father, not in all circumstances of course.
It smacks to me of a level of selfishness. Wanting to create a false family for the couple's benefit.

If it were me, I'd want to co-parent with a man but I wouldn't, so I didn't. It just all gets a bit complicated and I'm not sure that would be in the child's best interests either. The only way I would have had a child would have been if I and a partner had adopted. I'm all for that, male or female couples as long as they are thoroughly vetted of course.

Completely happy and supportive of 2x mums - thats great!

Totally against 2x dads ie. surrogacy. Bodies/babies aren't commodities to buy/sell.

Congratulations on your new family!

I don't have an issue with same sex parents. So many children are born to unfit parents or are unwanted pregnancies. I do think that adoption should be the way same sex couples become parents though rather than sperms donation or surrogacy. I know same sex couples who have adopted and have been amazing parents.
What were your reasons for sperm donation over adoption?

I’m absolutely onboard with same sex couples parenting, though like many others I am not in favour of surrogacy- the risks to the birth mother are high, and the reality is that except in altruistic surrogacy- it’s a financial arrangement that exploits poor women, often in poor countries. I don’t see it as entirely a choice in those circumstances for those women. I do know a gay couple who used an altruistic surrogate, and a donor egg, and the birth mother is in the baby’s life. I think that’s about as unproblematic as surrogacy gets, and I would still worry about the child missing out on the “fourth trimester” bond unnecessarily. Or at least, only to facilitate the adults in the arrangement not in the child’s benefit.

I know two gay (m) couples who have had children with single friend, and all three are involved as parents with shared custody. I think that’s quite an interesting idea.

I'm a lesbian, have a guess.

You are well rid of this 'friend'.

Have no issue with same sex parents at all. I know some people are a bit judgy about sperm donors but I am not personally. I think the important thing is that a child is in a loving and stable home.

That’s interesting. Do your views extend to ‘known donors’ who have a role (if not parental) in their child’s life?

This is going to come as a total shock to you but… women can kick balls too! I know! It’s mind blowing.

There are even… wait for it… WOMENS professional football teams!

^That type of gender stereotyping bullshit needs done away with and quickly.

I dont have a particular opinion myself, but i grew up in hebden bridge, and know three men, now in their thirties that deeply resent having been brought up by lesbians.

It wouldn't bother me at all. I would consider your friend homophobic.

I think a baby needs influence from each sex. Not opposed to two mums as long as baby sees the dad too.

I think a baby/child just needs a lot of love. Sex is not that important. Your friend sounds a bit narrow-minded.
And while it's great that your DD has male figures in her life who adore her, I don't think children need men and women for certain things. There's that silly argument that a girl needs a mum to take her dancing/put her in dresses and a boy needs a dad to teach him football etc, but I just think of my (male) DP and several dear male friends of mine, who all loathe football and adore dancing <<shrug>> Not everyone adheres to stereotypes of masculinity and femininity.

Great minds? Not quite, my first thought was small minds

If the two mums are loving and supportive, I'd say very very lucky child.

Only got to look on Mumsnet for the amount of disconnected or non-participating dads to see that having a couple of mums might be a great advantage.

100% agree with this. I am an adoptee who was not raised by either of my biological parents; I met my birth mother when I was an adult. And have never met my birth father. The damage caused by not knowing one’s biological family is a wound that cannot heal.

No problem with 2 people of the same sex raising an adopted child.

What dad? A donor was used, not all donors want to be a dad figure they just donate to help

Two fathers much worse.

I think that it is best if kids are brought up by their two biological parents who stay happily married for life. In an ideal world no child would be brought into the world other than buy a man and a woman who plan on staying together forever.

But we do not live in an ideal world.

The most important thing is that the kid is loved and brought up properly, and two great mums obviously trumps a bad heterosexual couple.

I do think that you have chosen to prioritise that you want a kid over and above what is best for the kid. Who's to say I would not have done similar were I not heterosexual?

A lot of babies have one Mum and no Dad. Two Mums is more than double as good as that in my opinion! I do think kids should have role models of both genders though so as long as there are some positive and close male figures in their life I think that’s great.