How can we stop our 12yo sleeping on our floor??

[Jones3A]

Fucking broken with exhaustion and struggling not to just get really mad even though we know that's not going to work.
DS is prone to phases of anxiety around security/clinginess.
Currently 4 weeks into overnight wake ups where he marches into our room with his pillow and sleeps on the floor.
Any gentle / patient attempt to get him to try to resettle in his own bed rapidly spirals, he gets hysterical and we end up getting angry.
He won't even begin to try. Not to read, not to listen to quiet music, not to have us resettle him, nothing. He goes wild.
How the hell are we going to break this pattern?
We are both under a lot of work stress and the nightly drama is making it so much worse.
Any advice gladly received. I know we're making a shit job of this. In the wee hours I'm not in the best head space to handle it.

I do come from a different culture, but looking at yours and PP’s posts, I feel like if you throw hysterical hyperbole around like that, that’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

It’s like – forgive the kinda random example – in families where mothers don’t let their teenage kids wank, and the kids think they’re deviant twisted pervs and in a self fulfilling prophecy, grow up into actual deviant twisted pervs.

The kid is 12, in between childhood and teenagehood. Of course he’s seeking comfort from his parents. Or just not wanting to sleep alone due to our primordial natural unease with darkness and predators. Yes he will soon be a teen so best to stop sleeping in mum’s room, but you can do that in a more level-headed (still firm and immediate) way, instead of freaking out like he’s actually getting off from it or something.

If you paint him as some kind of deviant having naughty inappropriate needs (the childhood need for comfort) now, that’s one way to guarantee he WILL be in your bedroom at 30 years old…….. 😂

Yes I often think about the mismatch between our social structures and biological/psychological wiring, not just for this example but tons of other stuff. Obviously one has to follow the social context, but as you say it’s interesting (and unfortunate) how our biology often doesn’t match up

I do agree with you in terms of approaching with a hysterical mindset is unhelpful. I don’t agree with some posters who say it’s deviant behaviour either, I believe something has happened to trigger an emotional response. I also think Op is probably just at the end of her tether and is really desperate to sort out the situation.

I have to disagree with you saying 12 year old is still pretty young. It obviously depends on the emotional maturity of each individual but at 12 years old I was in year 7 and in year 8. I had started my periods by then and a lot of my friends had also. I knew about sex, discussed sex with friends and knew people who had done “sex stuff” at 12 years old. I will say there is a huge step in maturity from year 7 to year 8 though. I also tried smoking at 12 and had my first sip of alcohol at 12, like most of my friends did. You can argue that boys are more emotionally immature than girls at that age, I don’t know. But I do think at 12, well for me and most my friends and people from school were acting like teenagers at that point. Not saying everyone in my school acting the way I did, but a lot of people I knew and know now did stuff like at 12.

Also agree with not making it into a big thing.

Yes, there are loads of stuff that the social norms don't match what nature intended.

But the sleeping one is absolutely classic. Supernanny and her back to bed shite LOs want to be with you, it's where they feel safe. Just because I know the bedroom is safe doesn't mean LO does.

@Jones3A Op is he about to make the move to secondary, could he be getting anxious about it?
The fear of the unknown and hearing lots of nonsense about secondary?

He’s frightened and anxious. Put a bed for him in your room. You can get a slim single. In this country we have a real problem with children wanting their parents at night. Just let him in from the get go. Don’t make him run frightened with his duvet. He needs you. The reason is irrelevant.

By problem I mean that we as a nation want to get our kids into their own rooms. And we shouldn’t. Until they are ready.

I can’t speak for every person who comes from an Asian background. But the only reason why my family did it was simply because there were not enough rooms.

Not sure what you’re trying to say but my family has always had plenty, including spare! 😅 eta: as mentioned earlier my parents did have the nicest room though with the balcony facing the nicest direction, which was why I enjoyed sleeping in their room

Yes I agree puberty is the key factor here. But again we both agree, no point turning it into a big thing - I feel like that’s counterproductive in terms of results

I do think this is very unusual for a 12 year old and I’d be wanting to get to the bottom of why he feels so frightened. In the meantime go with it - set up a mattress in your room and say he’s welcome whenever but to be quiet. I guarantee he will not be doing this at 13.

But in the cold light of day I’d be gently finding out what is worrying him.

Have you read my comments? I’ve never once referred or painted Ops son as deviant. Never said or inferred he had naughty inappropriate needs or was doing it simple due to behavioural issues.

I said op needs to nip it in the bud. Set boundaries. And most importantly find out the issues of what is causing this. At 12 years old you aren’t a small child. He’s nearly a teenager, we don’t know the exact age of the son, he could have just turned 12 or could be weeks away from turning 13. My point is that he’s hitting important milestones in terms of physical, mental and emotional development, continuing to let her son sleep in the room without investigating the real reasons for his behaviour could cause delays in such milestones.

Completely agree a level headed approach should be taken without making it into a huge issue.

oh shut up, you’re the one who said sex, not me. The child needs help but continuously sleeping in the parents room is not what OP wants judging by their post. People need to stop making her feel bad. If you would like your tween sleeping in with you and your husband forever then I think that says something about you.

I was giving a reason as to why some Asian families slept beside their children. Said I don’t speak for all Asian families but not having enough room was our reason. On holiday we would also sleep in one room, until the kids were teenagers, and needed privacy. But it was never an issue sleeping all together, quite fun at times. Was only when kids started getting older and going through puberty there were issues. Mainly moody teenagers arguing but that’s when we would get our own rooms.

I’ll just repeat what I said about DS2 who was 12 when his Dad left on Christmas day(!)
Emotionally well adjusted, bright, many friends etc. slept( on a mattress next to my bed or across the bottom of my bed
He also saw Paediatrician as he was struggling with stomach problems( normally eats like a horse)
There was an obvious trigger in his case, but imo OP’s DS needs a calm and patient approach to bedtimes and do what works best for everyone to sleep well.
It is not letting the child “ rule the roost” or giving in, or platitudes like this
Kindness, safety and security will ensure it passes soon, as it did in my sons case
Strangely DS1 and DS3 were not affected at all

Two things stand out for me- when he gets hysterical, you get angry! This is horrible. You are rejecting him at his most scared and vulnerable. Your child needs you to step up and be the grown up. Be calm and comfort your child.
Secondly, why? The neediness , the fear of being on his own, the hysteria and crying. Poor kid, he desperately needs help for something and you are moaning about the disruption without finding the root cause. I would be desperate to know what had caused this in my dc.
Start with a massive apology for being angry when he’s been upset. I really hope he forgives you.

@Needspaceforlego Yes indeed. How did they manage? I slept with my parents at this age. We had 2 bedrooms for 5 of us. So I’m well aware of the issues. I didn’t want to be anywhere near them! Could not wait for a bigger house which we did not get until I was 17. My 18th birthday present was a fucking wardrobe! I guess they had sex when I was at Brownies.

@TizerorFizz 😆at Brownies.

But ultimately yes, there are plenty of tales of massive families in tiny 2 room tenement flats. And I mean 2 rooms not, 2 bedrooms, living room & kitchen.
I guess they were inventive.

I'd probably set up a blow up bed either in his room or yours. That way it doesn't disturb anyone too much and you can all get some decent rest.

Once he feels more secure he will naturally stop coming in.

@Needspaceforlego If you have been forced into a crowded bedroom, you really HATE it. No private space and, in our case, no belongings. Just a bunk bed. Own bedroom was the best thing. It also made me determined to have loads of bedrooms!

This is not normal behaviour

In Britain no, it does not fit with social norms where we put our 6 month old babies to sleep alone in separate rooms (because we want 'privacy'). But I'm not sure, as many people have said upthread, that this is how we were biologically designed.

And of course he won't still be in with OP "at 16, 18, 21". It'll probably be over before he's 13. And he's not in her bed, he's on the floor beside it. Subtle difference.

few generations ago houses were smaller and families much bigger. How did the parents get privacy to keep the family growing 🤔

She talks about 2 rooms victorian houses we no longer have - she says Sunday school.

Mine weren't doing this past primary school - so I do think 12 is unusal.

However clearly there is an issue - and short term getting though it and also trying to sort out what's going on and long term find statergies to get him back to his own bed for the entire night.

Goodness me I did not anticipate so much response, and I am so grateful to everyone who has posted, I have finally sat down and read every single one. Thank you for all of them, the kind words and the challenging ones. Almost everything posted has resonated.

I posted in a very bad headspace last night, so apologies for the outburst with little detail. I'll try to give more context, and I'm sorry for not having had the energy or focus to provide what is clearly very important background. So brace for a long one!

Regardless of that, the lack of detail means you have given quite wide-ranging advice and posed good questions, all of which I think was accidentally extra helpful and insightful.
I'm going to try to give some answers/context to the things people have asked or speculated about:

• We are very close, he's still very soppy with both me and his DF/my DH, we're emotionally very open and loving as a family. We adore him, and our DD (8).
• He is very bright academically, less so socially, and doesn't find friendships easy, or other kids, frankly. He loves adult company and vice versa, he's very charming and articulate. He's verbose, intense and highly emotionally volatile. He has a fixed mindset and can fixate/obsess a bit, he flies disproportionately off the handle at the mildest instance of not getting his own way. He's been previously (2y ago) assessed for Aspergers (as was) or other ASD profiles, and didn't meet the diagnostic criteria.
• He has therefore always had some challenges and anxieties - although nothing new we can identify in the past month. He often shifts the anxiety goalposts and for a time will become focused on one thing, I guess this is the current phase. And yes, he started Y7 in Sept and it was a huge shock to him, he has had some "mild" bullying (is there such a thing?!) experiences for the first time in his life (tiny primary school), which I'd say now are more "negging" that is grinding him down. We've spoken with our lovely GP who has referred us on for some CAMHS-related support. School are also supporting through the above issues, and he meets with a school child support worker weekly, which he seems to be responding to positively, although we're very concerned for his self-esteem and overall mood.
• He has form for quick habit-forming, and also, very often, for later admitting manipulating or attention-seeking, which doesn't help with our feelings of doubt and frustration - where do we need to parent and help him develop coping mechanisms and boundaries, versus when do we just relax and go with the flow. This confusion has dogged us for about 7 years so far, so hopefully you can appreciate we're pretty lost and regrettably, sometimes easily triggered. Attention-seeking in itself is a symptom of a problem, right? So if he's faking something to get a response, what's driving that and how can we help solve it? Or does he need a firm but fair reality check to help him eventually become a well balanced adult?! It's exhausting. And so we massively worry that along the lines of PP saying "nip it in the bud" we should be hesitant to do anything other than discourage.
• We're very aware he's on a puberty cusp. He's still childlike and not very hormonal quite yet, definitely in his "not a boy, not yet a man" Britney era ; ). I can see him conflicted between wanting to reject childhood things, and then clinging on to us for dear life.

We took on board a huge amount of what I read (and shared with DH) first thing this morning already and have made immediate, positive changes -

I took off work early this afternoon, picked him up from school myself and told him the rest of the day was his. He was very sullen (don't blame him) but agreed to let me take him for an ice cream in the sunshine. We gradually gently built up chatting until we had some calm conversations and agreed to a "reset".
He can't explain what's causing this specific phase, only managed to decide it was slightly more about being near us, than it was about being scared of something in the house/room.

We have set him up a bed in our room, showed him it's there if he needs it - gently clarified that it's not really an invitation, and also shared why we don't want to encourage him (to help him feel happy, relaxed and confident in his own room being the goal) and that if he comes in to be as quiet as he possibly can. And asked that he agree to then concentrate with us on looking at the "why" and setting about fixing that.
There was a lot more constructive and supportive/loving conversation than that, but that's the key part.

He said this evening that he already feels calmer knowing it's there, so that's been a very quick win.

On reading the further posts tonight, I'm also going to talk to DH about seeing how the next few nights go and then potentially setting up another bed in his room (absolutely impossible to share a bed with him 😂) to start phasing that in, instead of him coming to us, as some kind of transition to him staying put. Will see how we go.

Honestly can't thank everyone who replied enough, you've provided such a strong bank of experience and reassurance that I didn't know quite how much we all needed. Might have a little sob.

Aww OP that's a great update ❤️

Does he need help with boosting his self esteem? He sounds like my ds a few years ago. If he's up for some physical exercise I can recommend parkour as a great confidence booster if you can find classes nearby, and of course it's nice to socialise with children other than those at school.

It sounds like you all might catch up on some much needed sleep tonight. Take care!