Messy situation - pregnant with wfb's baby

[Namechanged140525]

Very tricky situation, I am neither of these people, but I'm trying to help as much as I can but don't know what advice to give. I am friends with Sarah and know of Joe.

Let's call the woman Sarah and the man Joe.

Sarah is a British citizen, she is 45 years oldand has four children, 20, almost 18, 13, and 10 (two eldest and two youngest have different fathers)

Sarah divorced her first husband after he became a drug addict, her second husband suddenly passed away. A year or two later she met a 20 year old man, Joe (now 24), non-British (this is relevant for the story) on a dating app. They dated for a couple of years but decided to break up as Joe's parents are very religious and wouldn't accept Sarah.
Sarah and Joe remain best friends and have casual sex.
A while later, Joe announces that since his student visa's expired, he has to move back to his home country (all his family including parents and siblings still live in the UK).
Sarah offers to go to his home country and the two youngest kids to visit.
Sarah falls in love with the country despite not speaking the language and decides to move there a few months later with her two youngest children.

Joe and Sarah are still casual, he sometimes sleep over at hers, he doesn't have a permanent address and airbnb hops, but she stays at his from time to time too. Joe gets along with the children and even accompanied them and Sarah on the kids' first day of school.

Sarah unexpectedly gets pregnant. Joe asks her not to tell his parents and suggests an abortion, Sarah wants to keep the baby and tells his parents, in the hope that they will make him see some sense.
The whole family blocks her and Joe ghosts her, move out from his airbnb, and is nowhere to be found.

Sarah is a (smallish) social media influencer.
She calls him out and publicly posts his name and socials.

Joe is unaware of it and shared all his details including his phone number on said socials.
He doesn't want to be a father, he is now engaged to a girl his age as his parents disapprove of the age gap.
Joe and Sarah live in a religious country where having children out of wedlock is a crime.

What would you do?
Also, would you let Joe know?
Sarah refuses to take down his details

Okay look, if your friend homeschooled two children while holding down a UK job remotely and maintaining a side gig as a Social Media Influencer, all the while engaging in a situationship with a 20 year-old man and running back and forth across the border to renew a tourist visa, in the midst of a global pandemic and all the travel restrictions that went with it (you said they met 4 years ago?), then great. But have you considered that she may be a compulsive liar? Are you even sure she’s pregnant?

This is incredibly irresponsible. What a stupid woman.

They met 4 years ago but she moved to that country in 2023.

I know of the guy, so I know he does exist and they were a thing.

As for the pregnancy, to be honest, I don't know.

For her job, she does make money from social media, but I am not actually sure if she does still work for the company she used to work for. She mentioned receiving some money from her husband's passing, but I don't know if she does still work her regular job or if she is too embarrassed to admit that she doesn't. She dedicates a lot of time to her social media accounts and mentioned wanting it to be her full time job. She also complains about being broke and mentioned that she couldn't afford the rent anymore and that she needed to get more money from Youtube, TikTok and Instagram.

Her faking her pregnancy did cross my mind, she said she went to ask, I asked if she could show me any pictures, and she changed the subject. Or maybe she felt I was being too invasive.
She also said in one of her posts once that she wanted to name her child Joe, just like his father, which I found odd.
But I also think that's too far fetched, I don't think she would be able to lie like this.

I’m hedging my guesses it’s an Arab or North African country. If I’m correct, likelihood is he will travel ban the kid as soon as it’s born. Happened to a few former colleagues. I also doubt he will give up that child easily as it’s a goldon ticket to the UK if he were ever wanting to return.

Connections talk in these countries. Doesn’t matter if some daft lawyer has told her she won’t get arrested or, it just takes one of the family members to know a bent judge and she’s screwed, he’ll get custody. I’ve seen it happen first hand.

What on earth was she thinking? Especially with that age difference. Depending which country it is, her health insurance may very well be void during pregnancy.

Also depending which country, she could be in a lot of trouble legally for defamation of character. I used to live in the Gulf and what she has done by sharing his private information online would be considered a criminal offence.

"I asked if she could show me any pictures, and she changed the subject" this is wildly suspicious @Namechanged140525 . I would say that she is almost certainly making the pregnancy up, which is a good thing. Never have I met a person who didn't want to show off pictures of their children / scans of them in the womb, especially to close friends. It's usually the other way round! I'm sure I'm guilty myself, of boring people senseless with scan pictures.

They might actually be better off than with the nitwit mother. I have zero sympathy for Sara and hope her children are taken off her and placed with safer custodians.

What help do you hope to offer Sara, OP? Why are you getting involved?

Sarah is playing with fire. What does she hope to achieve by naming & shaming Joe?

Does she want to be in a relationship with Joe?

He (and his family) have made it clear that's not on the cards...

She can obviously live wherever she wants & if that's not her home country then shrugs shoulders. But it does sound she's trying to force Joe's hand somehow.

If I were Sarah, I'd be educating myself on the laws/customs/culture of the place she's decided to call home.

She sounds a bit stalker ish to be honest..

So when Sarah was 41 she hooked up with a 20 year old??

If this was reversed and a 41 man targeted a 20 year old woman there would be comments of grooming and the ickiness of it.

She is living illegally in another country with her children, this is incredibly irresponsible and the consequences do not bare thinking about, yet she must.

Let a lone risking losing the baby to the father she also risks losing her two children. And who would look after them if she's in jail in a foreign country??

I couldn't be friends with someone so selfish and potentially dodgy.

Sarah is selfish and unhinged. What a mess she created. Her poor children.. Fundamentally, Sarah needs a therapy.

Jumped the shark...

I've just rtwt and I don't believe this at all. Apart from it being a ridiculous story, the way the op knows so much is very suspicious eg re Sarah having a local bank account

(I was on the phone to her on her way to the bank), I know that much is true @Namechanged140525

Knowing so much about parents, siblings etc

The inconsistencies eg being concerned Joe's mum will want the baby, oh but she's in the UK as happens to have a house in the other country.

Can afford private schooling and healthcare but doesn't need to show residency for either.

Leaving the borders regularly, what does that even mean??

Sarah can't afford to live in the UK but is spending £12,000 a year on schooling?If this is all true she's incredibly stupid. She's made the worst choice repeatedly and is risking her children's safety. I would step back OP because she doesn't seem to want good advice.

An elaborate wind-up, I think.

If this is indeed true, have you alerted the local embassy that there are two children there with a mum who, genuinely, might have mental ill health. She might be a liar, an idiot and reckless. Or she lying, idiotic decisions and recklessness could be symptoms of an underlying health condition.

If things go really pear-shaped (e.g. arrest, imprisonment) yet Sarah fails to contact the embassy, local authorities should do in order for the children to be taken care of. But, personally, I don't rely on unknowns to put the safety of children first and so I'd call them myself, even if they only note your concerns.

Did Sarah lose a bet with a genie and now she has been tasked with entirely destroying her own life (without explaining to anyone what the actual fuck)? Has she had a breakdown?

Because if not, and she’s actually doing all this in her right mind and because she chose to, you could always just leave her to it?

FWIW I think it’s entirely possible that anyone this deluded is ultimately going to be fine. A bit like how a drunk person can fall downstairs unharmed but would break at least a rib when sober, the properly, to-the-core stupid have a sort of protective emotional force-field. And phenomenal resilience. Maybe it’s a combination of not caring a fuck about consequences allied with good old magical thinking.

I can see why you’re worried about the kids but since they have a mum, dippit as she is, there’s not a lot to be done there either. Unless you want to offer to have them back to the UK for a holiday then get social services involved - but tbh that sounds like Chapter Two.

PS. if you are writing a novel, hope this helps 😜

She sounds unhinged and I feel sorry for her children

Sarah is beyond stupid. She won't listen to reason so let her get on with it. If she ends up losing her baby to the Dad or his Mum she was warned and chose to ignore sensible advice. Some people are just beyond help.

I'm guessing Sarah fell hook line and sinker for the idea that an attractive (Moroccan?) man twenty years her junior had fallen in love with her. She has probably given him quite a bit of money over the years, and is too embarrassed to admit it. Like every woman who ever fell victim to a conman, she thought she was different.

Other posters think she groomed him or wants to trap him into marriage. But odds are, it was the other way around. She gave him money, fell for the lie, and now she's slowly waking up to the fact that he was only ever using her. Now it's time for him to settle down with a good Muslim girl and she's out on her ear. To me, all of "Sarah's" moves read like a desperate attempt to save face. Converting to Islam, moving to his home country, meeting the parents . . . but none of it was ever going to work. She's an older Western woman with two marriages and four kids under her belt, and she's happy to have sex outside marriage. His parents were never going to be won over by her - and deep down "Joe" likely views her the same way.

If the pregnancy is real, he still won't want "Sarah", but he may want the baby. Depending on where she is, converting to Islam could have seriously diminished her maternal rights in that case. I'd tell her to come to her senses and get as far away as possible. He doesn't love her. The fantasy needs to end.

There are plenty of other countries in the world where she could enjoy a lower cost of living.

I am also finding this hard to believe, but that might be because @Namechanged140525 is being lied to, and not deliberately trying to mislead us. Of course, every single word might be both true and correct. Apologies, if I am just repeating what others have said, as I have only read the OP's posts in their entirety.

If this thread is genuine, I assume that the OP's friend is living in an Islamic Country, and like most people, I only know some of what happens to outsiders through the terrible and very scary articles I have read in British newspapers. However, it does seem very likely that the OP's friend is breaking at least 3 fundamental Islamic laws, and for the ones to do with women having sex outside of marriage, the women can be stoned to death, or spend 20 years in a hell hole prison. Even in the UK, far too many Muslim women are considered to be, at best, 2nd class citizens, and often little more than useful chattel to their husband's.

I expect that I might have some indignant replies from some British female Muslims in relation to my last sentence above. But, if so, am I wrong, or is the protester? (I very much hope that I am the one who is mistaken, as it breaks my heart to think of any women and children living anywhere in the world, under such awful conditions). I am very sorry if my bluntness has upset anyone, as I definitely don't want that, and afterall, it is only my opinion. I really mean it when I say that I hope that I am the one in the wrong, and that I should stop believing what I read in the newspapers.

Yeah not a chance.

• in the country illegally but kids registered at school
• living in poverty in uk but enough money in house equity to put the kids in private school
• working remotely therefore illegally without telling her company
• company somehow haven’t worked it out even though she is a minimum of 5 hours ahead
• who looks after kids when working uk hours (she is in Asia somewhere, my guess is India)
• Has big enough social media presence that it was worth mentioning, don’t the people from work follow her and will see what is happening
• Kids out of country without dad’s permission? Or has he just decided he doesn’t care
• Has time to work, look after a houseful of kids, and run a social media account, good one

this one is a definite loss

So, what do we know about Sarah so far?

She's apparently impulsive, dishonest, vengeful, manipulative, doesn't respect boundaries, engages in risky behaviours...

Why are you involved, OP?

I think I would have to tell her straight for the sake of the children (hopefully, in a way which doesn't make you her next target). If there was anything I could do for the children, I would do that. Then, I would step away.

More holes than a Swiss cheese in this story.

Not always true, Malaysia for example