Thread 23 Starmer - Reflux Remedy

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5319797-thread-22-starmer-running-up-to-local-elections?page=40&reply=144097823

Sunak is doing alright

https://bsky.app/profile/writesbright.bsky.social/post/3lp2rxcoaes2h

NEW - Rishi Sunak received £160,750 for a single speech at Bain Capital, an American investment bank.

That's more than four times the average annual salary of full time employees in the UK

😂

Yes I think so. Starmer; Stop the Votes

its funny irrespective of your political leanings

I have been on here for nearly 20 years and definitely wonder about the authenticity of possibly 40/50% of posters now.

Very true 🙄

BREAKING: At a special press conference hosted by the Justice Secretary the government reveals that male prisons are at 99% capacity and will run out of space by November.

Sentencing review next week.
Back to the issues we were talking about last year - failure to invest and plan in prison estate over the last decade (I seem to remember Sunak tried to reverse this but ran into planning issues)

I agree. I listened to James O’Brien this morning. Yesterday he had a really articulate young lad from Manchester trying to verbalise why he was somewhat opposed to wide scale immigration and another from Liverpool discussing the nuance of Starmer’s speech. JoB actually listened for once and I thought had taken on board their experiences/feelings. But no, back onto the Enoch Powell slant this morning. I’m actually disappointed in him. I wish he’d apply the same balanced view that he does on the Palestine conflict.

I think around 12,500 prison places have been created since 2010.
But 10,700 prison places closed since 2010 (due to estate dilapidation) and average custodial length has increased.

Yes I managed to catch this during my lunch break.

I thought he made an excellent point.

The issue is the probably there is core to Reform that is actually racist. You can see sometimes that surfaces in elections via comments etc. Not that you wouldn’t find them in other parties…

However, that is rather different as to why people might support them. It suits Farage perhaps to conflate immigration with all problems. It is up to Labour to a) attempt to fix problems are pretty complex to improve people’s lives and b) make them clear and obvious to everyone

Farage makes pretty good hay with some of his stuff. All he has to do is ask what is perceived to be impossible or impermissible. I think a huge number of people feel like that. They mentally engage with it.

When Starmer did his speech and paper he basically communicated that it is “okay to discuss”. It is a very small step forward. PMs since Blair have made promises on this. People are pissed off; meta messages about diversity aren’t really relevant to them.

Isn't Starmer just laying the groundwork for Reform, shifting the centre to the right. There's nothing inherently wrong with caring about inclusivity and diversity and I think those voters that believed that Labour stood for these principles, are not going to be reconciled to this Reform like rhetoric, perhaps that doesn't matter but I think it is high risk to lose those Voters.

Good luck @cardibach

I mean he lost me. I'm gone now. But to be frank that was a work in progress.

It is a risk isn’t it? The case Labour has to make in an economy that’s faltered is that diversity that contributes is a good thing. What Reform point out and work on imo that they don’t agree with the idea of diversity as a good thing in of itself. They believe it is worthless.

Then they play on nationalist feelings of people with very little.

It’s notable that they took off after really high levels of migration which affected those with very little. These people do not want to be told that they should make more accommodations or literally that they should accept accommodations for asylum seekers. I don’t say I agree with Reform, but basically Labour have got to really thinking about these people. I think they have rather forgotten their needs. Farage listens to them.

Exactly that. I’m a prime example, I’ve never voted for any other party but I’ll be thinking long and hard now. But we’ve already established that I’m essentially disenfranchised by FPTP anyway so I suppose it doesn’t matter.

Chris Philp has now admitted that leaving the EU has made returning up to half of x channel migrants back to the EU impossible, they only discovered this in the last days of their administration.....

You couldn't make up this level of incompetence!

Well done Chris! well done to the Tories!

Yes, my DH and our friends that voted Labour, due to heritage with DH, wouldn't vote for a Reform style Labour, we probably fall into those clichéd stereotypes of Liberal lefties and I remember in 90s London how bad the extreme right wing BNP style hostilities can be so TBF my view on this is being informed by those memories.

Oops, sorry, my above post was in response to Blossomtoes post.

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-recording-reveals-top-tory-knew-of-flaws-in-post-brexit-plan-to-return-illegal-migrants-13367821

Well he was a Home Office Minister

Out of interest, as ‘liberal lefties’ do you think immigration should be controlled ?
Traditional left wing ideology was against large scale immigration due to its effect on working class wages.
When you look at the number of constituencies where Reform came second and split the RW vote, I don’t think Starmer could really ignore people’s’ concerns. If Tories and Reform had done some kind of pact, we’d be looking at a Tory-Reform coalition. (And I’m not insinuating that immigrants are the cause of all our troubles btw, it’s just how people perceive the situation).

'Liberal' lefties (I never actually call myself a leftie ; I always thought that was issued as an insult) don't tend be in the same camp as the left wing traditionalists. There isn't one version or iteration of the left, it has to be said.

Corbyn is very left wing, as is Abbott, and he was obviously a bit anti EU but not anti immigration.

I ponder the Windrush Scandal frequently and wonder how that outrage would be handled now.

DH and I are both Labour voters. He is quite taken in by the RW press on immigration and quotes stuff from The Times at me but he likes Starmer and is happy (ish) with him. His values are nothing like mine but we have both always voted Labour.

@Piggywaspushed sorry, wasn’t using it as an insult. I’m one myself and have always had a relaxed view on immigration. It’s a conundrum really, who should Labour be supporting, NMW workers and the like, or immigrant workers at risk of being exploited, or both.

Well, I'm not sure if we are Liberal Lefties, that's why I referred to them as Clichéd stereotypes but I meant on here as in, on MN, just a quick way to describe the demographic I suppose.

Yes, I think it should be but the language being used is exclusionary, divisive and extreme IMO. I grew up in a part of West and South London that are now gentrified but when school age it was a bit like going to Grange Hill and lots of young people like the characters in the comedy, People Just Do Nothing, it was very multicultural but I knew a couple of boys that were beaten up in race related crime, it was a really nasty atmosphere at that point in the 90s but got significantly better as the 00s approached and the spotlight was shined on institutional racism.

But it is about wealth inequality more than anything and opportunities in life, I just think a Labour government should focus more on that, to tackle the feelings of discontent and that's not to say they haven't done things that are positive but I don't think copying Reform is the way forward- no.