Interesting article about the effects of divorce on womens finances, particularly pensions

[PyongyangKipperbang]

And the difference to the effect it has on men. You wont be surprised to read that they are better off than we are after divorce....

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/stay-home-mum-50-divorced-no-pension-3628292

@ohtowinthelottery I’m so sorry your child died. I hope the fact you gave him or her the best life you possibly could, eases the pain a little. If you ever need to divorce, you’d deserve an equal standard of living to the one your husband would
have.

She's slightly older than me. Very common 15 years ago for women to give up work and to be stay at home mums. A few men did childcare but not many. It was very tricky to get part-time professional work, so many women did return to work but in poor paying jobs. I am south-east. I am always surprised on here that people seem unable to remember that things were different for different generations.

15 years ago!! Come on, it was not common for women to give up work 15 years ago.

I think the article is just about women who have made silly financial decisions rather than a SAHM versus working Mum debate. Why would you wave away half of his pension?

I have always been slightly confused by Mumsnet on this. I’m not a SAHM but I work part time and earn much less than DH for many complicated reasons. Health being the main one.

According to Mumsnet I would be penniless on divorce as I haven’t kept working full time in my corporate career. Yet we have two houses (mortgages paid off). In both our names. I do have a good final
salary pension from when I worked . I’d make sure I got half of his and half of all his shares and savings. What am I missing?

I get it if they’re hiding loads of debt and as a couple you don’t have much. As your earning potential is far less than his. But don’t get how wealthy men with lots of assets can leave a wife penniless?

Well, speaking as the grown up child of parents who would argue about who had to go to my concert and whose dad sometimes forgot to pick us up, I haven't forgotten what it felt like and would not deliberately do that to my child. Their priorities are not our priorities.

Of course sometimes earning a living has to come first.

I think you are missing your excellent cultural capital and assertiveness @Delatron!

Difficult to discuss unequal outcomes without the context of why and how they come about.

You see on here all the time women who are desperate to keep the house they live in to the detriment of them taking a pension share. The best piece of advice I ever read was do not do this. You are entitled to have a share of both pensions combined which will give you an equal status. Pensions create wealth. Houses gain in value but not at the same rate as pensions do! My pension pot has continued to grow at about 7% which is greater than the amount I withdraw from it so it continues to grow.

I disagree. Im early 60s. My mother would have left my father if she had somewhere to go with us kids. She couldn’t. There were no benefits etc. childcare was termtime only. There was no way she could have walked out on him. Pensions were not split, ordinary working class people could not afford solicitors.

But don’t get how wealthy men with lots of assets can leave a wife penniless?

Well the vast majority of men aren't wealthy & then wealthy ones often try and leave the wives with less. Have you never read about any?

the poster said women in their 50s and 60s didnt she?
not your dm

15 years ago? Not in my world!

My dd was born 20 years ago. I knew a few SAHPs but not many, and almost all went back to work after the dc started school. Their male partners absolutely expected to contribute to childcare, and school drop-offs were roughly half/half mums and dads with a sprinkling of grandparents and childminders mixed in. My own DH put in a flexible working request, as did I, so that we could juggle things between us.

The picture that you describe would have been accurate 50 years ago, but 15??? Certainly not where I lived!

Well, speaking as the grown up child of parents who would argue about who had to go to my concert and whose dad sometimes forgot to pick us up, I haven't forgotten what it felt like and would not deliberately do that to my child. Their priorities are not our priorities.

But that's not the same as what I said... my parents couldn't make all my performances as I have other siblings so things clashed but they loved me & supported me so it just wasn't a big deal to me. Obviously if you don't feel important or valued to your parents that's a different thing entirely.

I’m in my 50s. Divorce was unusual when I was a child. When parents of a child in my Primary class got divorced it was seen as quite shocking. Obviously has become more common amongst that generation as time has gone on. But when I met DH whose parents are divorced, I still didn’t know many other people within my peer group with divorced parents.

I’m just wondering about the narrative on here that women must always keep in their full time job at whatever cost or they will be left with nothing.

I genuinely bought in to that. And even when DH and I were going through rough patches I thought - well we can’t split up as I’ll have very little money as I didn’t keep my career up.

I get that not all men have lots of money. But the narrative on here is that no woman should ever be a SAHM as she will be left with nothing in divorce.

My dh tried to challenge two workplaces and suggested flexible working. One HR suggested he shouldn't have children and to get social services involved. 🙄 they also didnt think he should take any paternity, scheduled training for him so it was cut short. The other workplace essentially pushed him out. They made it all about his "work ethic" didn't fit the company and his boss said "you've got a wife for that" when he had to leave to collect a sick child from school. What made it ridiculous was that his role could of been done remotely from home. The job had so much scope for flexibility and prior to asking for any flexibility they were very pleased with his work pushing for training and promotions.

In his current role his team of men (who are all fathers)essentially cover eachother to allow them flexibility because the other managers and departments hate it. So whilst we have laws and in practice flexibility should be allowed/worked in. In reality attitudes are still firmly that men shouldn't adjust their working life at all for their family or children. Untill it's all men fighting this fight and willing to only work for decent companies I can't see it changing soon.

but she got 50% of his pension and spousal maintenance.
so a non story

good grief, I was having babies 30 years ago and it was very common for mums to go back to work after maternity leave. I was also aware of the impact on my pension if I were to stop working.

I did do a couple of years of part time and even just those couple of years have impacted my occupational pension a fair bit. No way would I have stayed on part time for ages.

I think it’s a massive problem and you see it time and again on here: women saying it’s not worth their while returning to work because they don’t think about the long term. I also have a few friends in my age group (late fifties) who never returned to full time work after having kids. They went back on 2 or 3 days and never increased that, even after the kids were in school or at uni.

it’s something women really need to be aware of. It’s all very well knowing that in the case of divorce you can have a claim on some of your partner’s pension but it’s far better to have your own pension provision. There’s no better investment.

Also, quite aside from divorce, if your husband dies before you, you may be entitled to a percentage of his pension as a widow but is that going to be enough to be comfortable on if you don’t have your own provision?

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves dads doing drop offs etc were very much in the minority when DC was at Primary school and that was 15 years ago

@Delatron it depends on circumstances as some women will be fine but is that most women? The narrative is often "I can't afford to work, because childcare is too expensive" so post divorce you can see how those women may struggle. I think because more women do stay in work it's harder to get back in after a long break although again can depend on circumstances. Housing and life is in general expensive so a lot of people don't have the money to fund 2 pension pots.

Fair enough. Probably depended on the school, then. To be fair, our primary school catered to a pretty middle class cohort where educated, professional parents were the norm, so perhaps it wasn't typical. But I don't suppose it was wildly unusual either, as many of my male colleagues at that time also did the school runs for their children at different schools.

From observation of friends who have divorced the reasons which often contribute to a less than satisfactory settlement is behaviour and attitude: you have to educate yourself about the ins and outs of divorces. You have to act in a time appropriate manner with certain things eg freeze bank accounts and proceed with divorce in a timely manner. There is no point in sitting and crying and saying you don't want to be divorced as this just gives more time to the spouse to mess about with money. You have to engage a solicitor - it doesn't need to be this " shit hot lawyer " idea - but someone who can advise you on what you are legally entitled to.
All these phrases like ducks in a row and copying all paperwork in the house are really not necessary. You have to provide details of pensions, bank accounts, statements etc and spouse can be prosecuted if they don't provide.If pensions are reasonable then get an actuary report on what is a fair division.

In a way it doesn't matter in numbers if pension pots are unequal as they will be evened out in divorce.

Yes good points @towelonfloor

And it’s also nice to see some practical advice on here.

I think these threads often descend in to SAHM bashing. I think everyone’s circumstances are different and rather than women attacking other women’s choices it would be good to share knowledge.

For example - I didn’t know legally a spouse could be prosecuted if he didn’t provide pension details.

It’s good advice to not forsake the pension share for the house.

One of the things that caught me on getting divorced after 28 years was that after all those years of having a joint credit card I had only been a "secondary card " holder and had little credit rating. I was given a card with 500 pounds limit and had to build up my credit rating from there despite the fact that I was sitting with a large amount in a deposit account.