Interesting article about the effects of divorce on womens finances, particularly pensions

[PyongyangKipperbang]

And the difference to the effect it has on men. You wont be surprised to read that they are better off than we are after divorce....

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/stay-home-mum-50-divorced-no-pension-3628292

Isn't this the thinking that puts a lot of women at the disadvantage in the first place.

i enjoyed being part time and being around for my dc however.

Yes, I agree with this. There are of course always exceptions (so please don't "but that doesn't apply to me" this post, it's a generalisation) but for the most part long term SAHMs/very part time working women didn't have much of a career to start with so they are actually still better off post divorce than if they had had to earn their own money throughout.

In my professional experience, women almost always have a very strong attachment to keeping the family home and will often want to give away pension rights in favour of it,.which I understand emotionally but is not always the wisest course of action.

I think there comes a point where women need to own their choices. I have more sympathy for women 60+ divorcing who did not have as many options (though still some) Vs younger women who absolutely could have continued working but chose not to. I see so many women saying absurd things like "I cannot possibly take any job that isn't termtime only 10-2" despite the fact that clearly there is now plenty of childcare available unless you choose (another choice) to raise your children in the middle of nowhere

A Judge has to rubber stamp the financial agreement, so it wouldn't have got past that stage if it wasn't a fair split. I'm surprised some of the cases where a woman has dropped the request for pension have been approved.

I'm sure she could have fought it but if the sale fell through they wouldn't have got that price.

My colleague is so grateful she never stopped work. It taught me a lesson how nasty divorces can be though.

The pay gap doesn't refer only to a lack of 'equal pay for equal work' as you're implying here. It refers to the glass ceiling ie the lack of promotion opportunities, higher representation in lower paid departments, lack of representation on boards etc and cannot be accounted for by the amount of time off on maternity leave of women as a sex (which is, on average 56 weeks per woman so about as long as a gap year before uni)

Agree.

And as a 62 year old, I can say that we had options, too.

Everyone has agency. Many don’t want to work, and justify it, until reality bites them down the road. Then they play “victim of our cruel society” when it was their own choices and poor planning.

Nothing in that article seems revolutionary, what do people think happens if you spend a sizable amount of time out of the workplace? That you can just waltz back into a decent career and magically have a pension? In the dawn of the Internet the number of women who aren't aware of what they are 'entitled' to is going to not be huge let's be so for real. The focus on pension but be interesting what concessions were made elsewhere the settlement to be agreed by the powers that be as reasonable and fair.

I have seen this happen to so many women, including my own mother when my parents got divorced.

As a result… I’ve always worked five days a week, I took quite a short maternity leave, I still do work travel as before. I don’t think there’s been any career impact on me since having children as a result.

I also do not want my DH to not work, not that I think we will get divorced tbh, but because I don’t want to be financially responsible for him in the case that we do!

If you marry a well paid man and never get divorced… great, but that’s not what happens a lot of the time.

It’s probably also worth noting… I don’t think this has impacted on my ability to be a present parent or be there for my children in any way.

It frustrates me to see so many women feel they need to step back when they have children - you don’t see many men making that decision, and that’s why they end up so much better off financially.

I agree. So often on MN people say “well he wouldn’t have had the job without you there facilitating” and it’s nonsense except in specific circumstances involving a lot of travel. I know plenty of senior partners where I work, both male and female, very successful, without a SAHP at home facilitating everything.

I do think better more honest education is needed for girls; I got NONE, my family didnt discuss financial matters at all, I suppose because we were so poor it was irrelevant. I was already married before a bank manager took pity on me kindly explained about pensions.

Post divorce, losing everything etc has made me much more savvy but its been too late for my pension. My daughter is much more clued up but I still think career and money management should be on the curriculum!

They mean 'and had kids with everyone having quality of life'. I've balanced being a single mum with a high powered career and fuck me its hard, both arenas have not been what they could have been without the drain from the other iyswim

You have only just noticed that paying less into your pension pot means the pot is smaller?

Absolutely this. This is fundamental to this issue and cannot be brushed over by saying that it's the woman's fault for making bad choices.

The reality is that nurturing young children requires an instinctive understanding of their needs and a willingness to put those needs above your own. The majority of men, even the "good ones", are incapable or unwilling to commit to that on a sustained basis. Hence the woman ends up being the default parent, because she knows that the man won't step up and she's not prepared to see her children suffer as a result.

The majority of women would not want to place their baby in full time childcare 10 hours a day, 5 days a week the minute her maternity leave is up. If the man refuses to flex their own job to avoid this, then the woman will feel they have no choice but to reduce their hours for the benefit of their child.

Also, many men refuse to recognise childcare as a family expense, and so when a woman does the maths, working is often more expensive than staying at home.

Until men take the responsibility of fatherhood as seriously as women take motherhood, women will be at risk of being shafted. And I'm not talking about martyring themselves to their children here, I'm talking about meeting their children's needs and doing what is best for the family.

I disagree. Women can have a career and many do. It's an easy cop out to stay at home for 20 years and boast about DH earning mega bucks. See it every day on here. Thats up to them. But be aware that the day may come when it all goes pear shaped and the shit hits the fan.

The women in that article aren’t typical really. SAHM with wealthy husbands and clueless about finances.
They have ended up poorer but not necessarily poorer than if they’d not married at all. The first woman has a fully paid cottage and a lump sum. It’s just not the easy life she had staying at home. She got half of what they built together. He can’t be expected to carry on supporting her forever.

I've had a colleague's wife talk to me, a woman doing the same job, about 'facilitating her husband's career' 😂

The reality is that nurturing young children requires an instinctive understanding of their needs and a willingness to put those needs above your own. The majority of men, even the "good ones", are incapable or unwilling to commit to that on a sustained basis. Hence the woman ends up being the default parent, because she knows that the man won't step up and she's not prepared to see her children suffer as a result.

Do men really not have this instinct? I think many mothers do martyr themselves or are control freaks or have very low standards. My dad had the big city job & was at work a lot whereas my mum was at home. My mum had childcare though so she wasn't with us all the time, entertaining us etc (I think there is a lot of pressure of parents to do this these days) & when my dad was around he was incredibly hands on. Both my parents nurtured me & my dad always understood me better anyway as we are more similar.

The majority of women would not want to place their baby in full time childcare 10 hours a day, 5 days a week the minute her maternity leave is up. If the man refuses to flex their own job to avoid this, then the woman will feel they have no choice but to reduce their hours for the benefit of their child.

Things are changing though, longer paid parental leave, shared parental leave, flexible and remote working. I see more of both parents adjusting their working patterns.

Also, many men refuse to recognise childcare as a family expense, and so when a woman does the maths, working is often more expensive than staying at home.

I see that on here but never have in real life.

I think also what I would add is - I actually don't think it's unreasonable for someone who earns more to have more money post divorce. If a couple divorces in their 40s, half way through their working lives, I don't think it's unreasonable for the higher earner to end up with more money. When a couple divorces later in life - 60s/70s, it's a little different.

I think some women sadly make shitty choices about having children with shitty men, and then find that it's easier to project that shittiness on to all men than to own the poor choices that they made.

If you/many women really think this is true of your partner why even have children with him? Don’t people discuss the split of work and caring before having kids? Yes, men do need to do more parenting in general but “society” is not some magical wizard with an equality spell up its sleeve that’s going to make them change en masse, individuals need to make these choices. So women need to set minimum standards they expect from male partners and walk away if they don’t meet them. I know I wouldn’t have kids with any man who wasn’t prepared to be a 50/50 parent, whatever that looks like - both partners dropping a day at work for example, shared parental leave.

I think fathers can have a strong nurturing instinct, absolutely. Sometimes more so than the mother. Your dad sounds wonderful. But in my personal experience and from what I observe on MN, it's much less common.

i have no regrets
i had children,
they needed child care
they are adults now, for those who say there is plenty of child care available, it would barely have been covered by my pay.