Why are so many women living with crap partners?

[Mischance]

I know that Mumsnet is not representative of women in general, and that people are more likely to post if they have problems than if all is hunky dory, but ........ it is so sad to see women living their lives with such unpleasant men as if having a man in your life is more important than happiness and contentment.

In so many of these posts it is as if the women really do not think they matter, and will put up with any old rubbish in order to hang on to a man. They "really love" someone who even they can see is objectively a waster. And both they and their children suffer.

Do our schools need to be teaching girls that they matter in their own right; actively talking about the single life and the advantages/disadvantages of this, boosting their self esteem at every opportunity so they do not fall into this grim trap?

I know that there are lots of great men out there and lots of happy partnerships, and also relationships that have their ups and downs whilst being basically sound, but women need the tools to proceed in life independently rather than be sucked into these miserable relationships.

I agree with this. My DP did absolutely all the housework before we had kids - I've never been domestic and it was a running joke with our friends before we had kids.

Now we've had kids - I do most of the childcare, some housework, he does a bit of childcare and the majority of the housework. We've ended up with a 50/50 split of everything - which seems to be very rare.

All my friends who had 50/50 splits before kids, the women now do more. It's very depressing!

Here are a few reasons:

A lot of women replicate what they have seen in their parent's relationship. They haven't seen healthy relationships growing up.

They don't recognise abuse, manipulation and control.

Some don't have any self worth and are severely lacking in confidence.

They feel stuck financially.

They don't want their kids living across 2 homes.

They are scared of being alone and worried they won't find any better.

Because sometimes that’s a choice. I have zero interest in a career. I’m happy to do everything at home. However my dh is ace and will also do everything and anything he has the time to do.

Exactly. ^ I have had times in my marriage in the past when we have been through difficult times, struggling financially, with no help from family, (they were either dead, or had their own shit to deal with,) and me and DH at each others throats/not getting on.

I have wanted to leave in the past, (when it got really bad for a while,) but where the fuck was I meant to go? We had a mortgage between us (house in negative equity by about 10% at the time,) 2 young children, £40,000 worth of debt, and fuck all in savings. I also worked just 2 days a week (after going part time, as I was no better off full time.) Was I meant to scoop up my 2 children, and live in a fucking cardboard box under a bridge and live off cold soup and handouts for the next decade? Derailing their lives, and quality of life, and ripping their family apart?

No. So I stayed through the bad and shitty times, even when my DH was an utter cunt to me and always in a bad mood, did fuck-all in the house (or with the children,) and blamed me for anything and everything that didn't go his way, and made out I was always 'wrong.' I am sure some posters will blame 'depression.' But I suffered that too, and didn't talk to DH like he was a piece of shit I just scraped off my shoe.

Fortunately, things are much better now we're older, and we get on well, (and have done for about a decade since our mid 40s...) and the kids have left some years ago, and we are financially solvent now. So life is good now. But fuck me it was hard going through some of our marriage when the kids were at home/in school. DH was an arsehole half the time, and I did virtually ALL the childcare and housework whilst he pursued his 'hobbies' and worked a lot. I didn't leave though, because as I said, I had nowhere to go. A person suggesting you 'just leave' is coming from a very privileged position.

The most batshit comment I have read on this thread is 'if you want to leave your husband, just take your children and go and live in a houseshare with other women,' or 'buy a house with your sister. And you can live together with all of your children!' WTAF?! 😂

My DH is hard work, always has been.
He’s got worse since we had a child.

He’s the only difficult person in my life.
My life would be peaceful without him.

I could have married someone better.
Richer, with a home, a good career…

A lot of friends married better than me.
Some say they settled for “just a guy”

My DH is interesting, with many friends.
But he can often be a nightmare at home.

This. Totally.Esp where coercive control is involved. It's very subtle and not always obvious and many women get tucked in following the initial love bombing etc. Then one day they realise after years of control that they've lost their confidence and are a shell of there former selves. These men appear like nice men to those not close to him as they can manage to keep up appearances for the time they are at work etc bit turn into shitty people on their return home. Sigh...

If you knew he was hardwork and you lacked peace around him, why did you marry him?

This has absolutely nothing to do with schools it starts in the home.

Indeed so - but if school offered a different set of information, then some of that unacceptable role modelling might be counteracted, alternative paths outlined and discussed so at least some chidlren would stand a better chance in life.

I went to school in the 90s/00s and there was the narrative around women being able to have careers. There was lessons on finances. We had awareness assemblies of what abuse looked like.

Schools can't teach kids that someone who makes you happy at first will turn out to be a shit husband and father. Because that's not always true.

Sadly I think it's because so many of us (myself included) crave cock! And we think with our vaginas sometimes (I certainly do) and common sense goes out the window.

I love my current partner enormously despite his faults (and we no longer live together which in some ways is better) but I am aware that love is very influenced by the enormous attraction I still feel - if I was able to be coldly rational about him and things he has done in the past, my response to him might be very different.

Moreover, I do see that in practical terms, reviewing all the relationships with men I have had, I would be far better off (especially financially) if i had stayed single all my life. But I wouldn't have my amazing daughter, and I wouldn't have had all the fantastic sex I have had over the years, which unfortunately for me has always been fairly high on my priority list......

How will you support yourself if your marriage ends?

My marriage (30 years) has always been equal in career terms, childcare and home responsibilities as have my parents, in laws, sister and sister in laws. As have my close friends. In all there have been two full time careers and joint responsibilities for children and the home.

I am sorry to break this to you OP but schools are staffed mainly by female teachers (management are mostly male - the gender pay gap is quite big) and from my experience a lot of those are doing the heavy lifting in their relationships. Even when they're married to other teachers.

It would very much be a case of do what I say, not what I do.

It would be extremely easy to appear critical of parents.

I do actually sneak what I hope is useful advice into PHSE and subject teaching where the topic allows. I advise colleagues to join and use a union and to read the school pay policy. I encourage them to negotiate on pay when they change jobs. I explain pensions when asked.

Schools aren't divorced from the wider community.

A colleague escaped from coercive control and bravely did assemblies about it.

It takes considerable courage to stick your neck out like that.

Good points, many of these dudes can hide their true colours for years and it can only come through after kids and mortgage have happened. Then it becomes almost impossible to leave without serious complications.

I was not cautious, had my first child at 16 with my first boyfriend but we are still together years later. I know woman with children the same age as my children but they are two decades older and did everything right, had lots of life experience before settling down etc and still ended up stuck with an asshole.

Life can be luck of the draw.

It would be extremely easy to appear critical of parents. - yes, I am aware of that.

But the classes do not need to say "This is crap parenting/partnering, do not do this." They can be positive and partly discussion based and look at what a child needs from a parent, what a woman/man needs from a partner. If there is an opportunity to counter what is the experience of many children, we cannot pass this by just in case a parent takes offence. Breaking the cycle is too important.

You've only to glance at Mumsnet to see that the relationship between schools and parents is pretty strained already before PHSE starts delving into relationship choices...and they may be constrained or unwise choices, but they are choices.

I know one lady who at one stage had 3 small kids. Her husband thought he could still marathon train or go on long cycles every weekend. She told him straight out that he had 3 kids and had not the time to do this. She was working 4 days a week and wanted some free time away from the house and kid's. He just expected her to do it all when he was gone for hour's.

I saw one friend of mine get involved with a very selfish man. I noticed that him and his needs were always put 1st. She helped him through university and got him great work experience that helped him get a good job. He got a job, made friends and made life for himself. He told her 2 months before their wedding he did not want to get married. She was very upset at the time.
She went on to meet a man who supported her and her ambitions. He was willing to pull his weight at home. They waited a while before having kids because they were building up both careers and wanted to be in a good financial position.
She left a high pressure job a year ago to have time with her kid's and he is happy to support them all. She is around more for her own mother and mil who are now elderly.

I have a friend of mine who is now in her early 50's and she is single. She watched a lot of friends and family getting married and having kid's. It was hard for her at the time but now she is happy with her life. She saw the reality of marriage and having kid's with lazy, selfish men was like. She is making plans regarding her future and what she wants long term. She plans to change job soon to earn more and she won't be as available for elderly care. Her parents have prioritised the golden children and she says it only fair the golden children carry more of the load later on.

What’s the point in having children that you teach them ‘dad is a grunt sulking bully who gets his own way and mum’s too ground down and poor to have any choice’?

You don’t have to wait until you are a financial success to meet a life partner you just need to insist on someone who puts your happiness equal with theirs, and that never wavers, through good and bad times.

There are hundreds of thousands of amazing men out there. Men now who have been brought up by 90s laddette mums (for want of a better expression), who didn’t and don’t put up with nonsense, who know they can get better sex, companionship or whatever they need elsewhere.

Renting a small flat, with a hard job, perhaps evening shifts for extras, or living under a heap of 15 stone sulking bully who expects dinner each night and some sweaty grunting as his fucking right, yeah screw the extra bedroom and garden, give me a shift in the pub instead. Yes single living is hard work, but hey at least you can do work if nothing else you get money for. Living with a grunt doing hours of unpaid domestic labour and then expected to be sexually grateful for. Fuck that. I am 50ish and was brought up and grew to have a much more feisty attitude than, he pays the mortgage. Thank god. Staying because you have “a nice house” is a choice, if you choose that great, just don’t complain, that is your choice.

Our teens have been brought up by a grunge/rave mum and dad. They don’t get away with being entitled pricks either. The buck totally stopped with us. There was no chance in hell I was so desperate for kids I would have had them with just anyone. When I got pregnant there were many provisions, yes he wanted our babies, so there were was intense negotiations, it’s not like you can send them back. They were largely unnecessary but just in case oh man of little brain was confused on his spousal and parental obligations they were spelt out, as were mine.

Apart from materialism there are no excuses. Quite effective birth control is free.

But if you choose to settle for kids with an entitled knob then just own that choice.

I can see how it is hard to leave when he pays the mortgage and they have kids.

Where you supposed to live when you leave?
Even a small flat is expensive, more likely a house share with drug addicts. Good luck going against Mr asshole for custody of the kids in family court in that situation.

Well not all men are awful (though many are) but no ones going to post my husband actually does his fair share or almost his fair share.

Until men can grow babies, give birth to them, and breastfeed, it will never be equal.

Good for you. However I don't think it's that simple. Plenty of men will do their fair share and be lovely until they have kids. Women aren't deliberately choosing to have kids with w*. Its hard to know how stuck you might be as a sahm with no childcare until the kids are born. And the cost of living is very high. We're not talking about the difference between a nice big house in a lovely area and a slightly smaller one in an ok place. We're looking at whether someone has the will and energy to completely change their life, potentially living a tiny flat in a dangerous place, or miles from the train station that gets them to work. Of course they will worry is this trade off worth it. And the thing is a lot of men not doing housework isn't considered abuse. I do empathise.

I think women need to be encouraged into the highest paid jobs they can get and to not give them up on having dc. Can’t have the stock ‘childcare is more than my salary so it just made sense for me to give up work’ when you earn £70k+. Being vulnerable makes you more vulnerable. The women who can say fuck you need to be able to do so to make society fairer and then the more vulnerable women who cannot will hopefully be able to say fuck you in turn and find that support they need.

Warning signs are always there
how they react to traffic or cyclists or shop cashiers or waiting staff or doing something at the weekend for your mum that means he misses sport
they can’t keep up the pretence full time for years
if they are bog standard average but think they deserve more how they react to news stories

masks slip even just subtly but they do

I dated before me and H got married there was always just something that I just wasn’t prepared to accept it them about me. That was fine, two people I could have had kids with in my 20s but it just would’ve been wrong, so I didn’t, we split, moved back into house share, it was the better choice.

But with H, it was, well not perfect but nothing is, but as close as a two human relationship can be. And it was a gamble it might have meant no kids for me but I didn’t want kids so much to settle.

I wasn’t going to have a grunt as a dad for my children (if any) it’s not hard to avoid you just have to take a chance that you might not meet a non-grunt in time.

If you choose to get yourself in a position with a child and then another one and then another one with no escape possibility that is a choice.

But yes keep making his dinner, washing his socks, making sure you don’t upset his fragile ego, have whatever sex he says he needs, because then he will, surely, see you as the amazing domestic sex goddess you are not a domestic appliance that should never have an opinion or any emotional or financial demands.

And the cycle repeats with your children, sometimes, and that is entirely the parent’s fault for not breaking that chain.