Why are so many women living with crap partners?

[Mischance]

I know that Mumsnet is not representative of women in general, and that people are more likely to post if they have problems than if all is hunky dory, but ........ it is so sad to see women living their lives with such unpleasant men as if having a man in your life is more important than happiness and contentment.

In so many of these posts it is as if the women really do not think they matter, and will put up with any old rubbish in order to hang on to a man. They "really love" someone who even they can see is objectively a waster. And both they and their children suffer.

Do our schools need to be teaching girls that they matter in their own right; actively talking about the single life and the advantages/disadvantages of this, boosting their self esteem at every opportunity so they do not fall into this grim trap?

I know that there are lots of great men out there and lots of happy partnerships, and also relationships that have their ups and downs whilst being basically sound, but women need the tools to proceed in life independently rather than be sucked into these miserable relationships.

Well, on top of the issues already mentioned, I think many women haven't seen a good example growing up. Looking at my own house, my mother did everything on top of working full time. I mean everything. My father had and still has this awful idea that as the man he was superior, more important, more valuable. It was so old fashioned - housework was women's work, men were the breadwinners. Women were also supposed to be attractive, which meant long hair, subtle make up, skirts and heels. Women were supposed to be nurses and primary school teachers, until they married, at which point they were supposed to stop working and take care of their husbands. If they needed to drive, which was debatable, it shold be in small, 1 litre hatchbacks. My father was/is also of the Sean Connery opinion that women should be put in their place with a slap when necessary.

When you see that growing up, you either think it's normal and repeat the pattern or you work against it - which I have. However many people are doomed to repeat the patterns ingrained in us and if you don't have a better example to follow, that can include living with an arsehole and thinking it's better than being single because that's how it used to feel for women.

For financial reasons, usually.

I dumped my revolting ex like a hot potato when I finally got a job that paid decent-ish money.

Or too many men just refuse to do it. A touch of victim blaming there, I feel.

it is so sad to see women living their lives with such unpleasant men as if having a man in your life is more important than happiness and contentment.

I think a lot of women confuse a relationship (any relationship) with happiness and contentment and think that their life would be worse without the shite partner.

It takes a long time for social attitudes to change. From the (superfluous number of) posts about women having children 'later in life' on here, it's obvious that having children past early 30s (latest) is often viewed as a personal failing in not finding the right partner or focusing on other areas of life. It's still somewhat viewed as a race (only don't settle too early, otherwise you're also a failure).

I do agree with the finance point, but if more women focused on themselves earlier on and delayed settling down until they had more dating, life and professional expeirence, more could afford to live alone.

Yes it's financial. People who can't afford to live on one wage are stuck with crap partners a lot of the time. men and women.

You can teach girls whatever you want, but you have to understand that men who treat women badly don't start out that way - they are on their best behaviour, often even for a year or two. Often, women find this out when they are married with a baby on the way.

It's obvious why people stay with these men. So many reasons. They want to believe the shit behaviour is a blip and he'll go back to how he was at the start, they are trapped due to housing/kids/finances etc...with no family available for a bail out.

My friend left her abusive husband. He was not abusive at the start and he managed to make everyone else think she was just "mental". It honestly really worked - even some of her own friends believed it. The way she was able to leave was because her mum and dad came over, scooped up her and her 2yo and a few belongings into their car and took her to live with them. She literally needed a rescue, she was about 30. This was about 15 years ago - the bastard carried on with DV against other women and ended up with a criminal record for it. Still those friends who believed the woman was mental don't speak to her. Because even with a record, his fucking trickery worked on them! Don't underestimate the skills these men have.

Don’t have children with someone who isn’t good parent material. Have they lived independently, what was their home set up - do his parents both work - divide responsibilities, share finances, raising children, running the home.

Because they have kids or even beloved pets together and don't want to mess that up or they don't have enough money for a mortgage or rent on their own so living with one asshole is better than living with numerous assholes who are probably on drugs in a house share.

It is a choice, they are able to make a different choice if they choose too

Schools? Because they have nothing else to do...
Society is to blame. The majority of television programmes, films, magazines, social media contributions support the idea that to be successful, a woman must have a man.

Forgot to add some of these men are really nice and charming in the beginning and it can take years for their true colours to come through or they just straight up change. Its not always as simple as "she should of spotted the signs"

Finances.

Sometimes I’m not sure about my relationship anymore and I’m feeling this way more and more frequently. I’ve done all the calculations and I’m always on Right Move but the sad reality is that nowhere in the town where I live or those that surround it for quite some distance would be remotely possible for me to buy on my own, nor to even rent.

If I were to move further away (would have to be around 1 hour away on the motorway and I don’t drive) then I’d have no support network, would have an awful and expensive commute, and I’d have to uproot my Daughters from their school which they love and I just can’t and won’t do that to them. We couldn’t even move in with my parents which would enable them to attend the same school and me to access work with a short commute as their house is too small.

I had this chat recently with a friend who is in an unhappy marriage. She currently works part time, lives in a lovely house and has evenings free to do as she pleases as dh is home with the dc.

If they were to split, the house would be sold and she would need to go full time. If she was lucky, she might get another mortgage on a flat but would most likely end up renting. Her dh would only have dc at the weekends, if that, so she would lose out on free time during the week. There would also be the emotional upheaval of living together while selling the house, uprooting dc, divorce and no longer having a house to leave to dc.

It's a really tricky situation and I completely understand why she feels stuck and can't face the prospect of up ending her life. I'm a single mum and struggle everyday with money, time, and logistics around childcare. Both situations are difficult, I guess you just have to pick your poison.

But it will still have some impact. Women who want to reduce their hours or stay at home with their children will always be disadvantaged, unless they have a huge amount of savings, which in the current climate isn’t realistic for many women.

Even women who return to their career will be disadvantaged- who takes time off when the children are sick? Who picks up most of the work in the home? Unless of course they pay for help, which again is only a viable option for some women.

That is rarely going to happen. Men don't usually move out unless they're moving in with a woman. Women are far more likely to move out of their parents house when they're younger/single, and live independently.

I agree with previous posters that women stick with a man even if he's a useless miserable bore who rarely lifts a finger in the house, or 'helps' with the kids, because she is all loved up to start with, and he shows his best side for a while. Then marriage and babies come along, and then the men often change (or show their true colours!)

They show how lazy they really are, as the misogynism that's hard wired into them rears its head. Men don't 'do' housework, running around after the kids, and domestic duties. It's womens work. Some will give it a go, (for a short while,) but at the end of the day, the women will end up doing (almost) everything.

Then when the women get to a point where they are getting pissed off with being a domestic servant, it's too late. They have children with the man, their career is often affected (coz no WAY is a woman's career not affected by having children,) and she cannot afford to live alone with the children, and needs his income.

Living alone and paying everything yourself is extremely hard. It's always been hard, but it's very hard these days, and when you add children into the mix, you're talking almost impossible, except for the very fortunate few, who have financial independence/come from a wealthy family. Most women will not be able to survive (just them and the children) without financial support /benefits/ universal credit.

So that's why many women stay in dull, average, or even dead marriages, with a husband who is boring, annoying, or distant, because it's preferable (for many women) to being alone, and living in penury. Many women will just adjust, and make the best of a bad situation/a dull and loveless marriage to an average man who doesn't do much for them. Because this situation is preferable to living in poverty.

A lot of men are really quite poor quality.

Having children has really affected how I see men. All credit to the good ones but there are so many who not only don't pull their weight, but actually feel entitled not to pull their weight.

It's really noticeable when at kids' birthday parties with lots of dads attending how out-of-control the kids are and how little help the dads give to the hosts, as compared to when it's mostly mums. It's like they think they've earned enough brownie points just by turning up, now they can thumb their phones, ignore their kids and pretend they don't notice the party hosts or other parents having to help their kids open packets and bottles because they're completely oblivious. And as for offering to help pass around pizza or clear up... I actually can't remember seeing a dad on his own at a party (i.e. not corralled by his partner) offer help.

It's like many men don't have that sense of social obligation that people should just muck in and help because they think that these things are beneath them/someone else's concern.

Agreed, but it's not always that simple. If there were some checklist we could all easily follow then no-one would have this problem. As others have said, often it didn't start out that way. Honestly I'm not always sure that's true, as I have known occasions where those of us looking from the outside could see the problems clearly but the woman involved refused to accept it.

On the other hand, my husband is the opposite of the kind of morons we talk about here and genuinely is an excellent husband and father. However he'd completely fail your checklist - his parents' relationship was disastrous and on paper he didn't look the best catch. However I was older and very much not desperate for a husband and children when we met, I'd had plenty of experience of arseholes and was very happy living alone so I suppose my view was not clouded and I could see him clearly without those issues intruding.

Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that people aren't that two dimensional. It's not always obvious what the problems will be.

DH and I both took time off work if DT’s were sick, one did morning drop off and one collected. Both of us did the work around the home - DH was equally as capable as I am at doing the weekly food shop or deciding that the DT’s needed new clothes or shoes. He is their parent. Both of our careers are equally important. I would never have married him or had children with him if there was an expectation that I would lessen my career opportunities or become a SAHM.

I've never understood why women don't house share with each other more. I mean, I understand lots of women don't want to but whats wrong with 2 sisters and their kids who all get on, buying a house and living together? It's like no-one even considers it but 2 women and their kids COULD work really well living togther.

I think a lot of women are afraid of being a single parent and all that entails (finances, no emotional support, carrying the whole burden yourself). I was for a long time.
There’s also the fact that it creeps up on you. Most men don’t start out dreadful or we wouldn’t stay. It happens over years and choosing the right time to leave isn’t easy.
But having made that leap years ago it’s not as difficult as I thought and the peace that comes with no arguments or having to live with someone who doesn’t value you is priceless.
I do understand that I’m in a fortunate position now that I’m financially independent and can leave any unhealthy relationship if I want to and many women can’t.
But I also know how it feels to be trapped financially and it’s horrendous.

Agreed you can do everything right and still end up stuck with an asshole you can't leave because kids, the mortgage etc.

Technically I did everything wrong had kids as soon as I left high school with my first boyfriend a recipe for disaster but we're still together years later and happy. Now the kids are at school some of their classmates mums are two decades older than me and did everything right, lots of life experience first etc and STILL are stuck with an asshole or recovering from the fallout of leaving/being left by an asshole.

It can happen to anyone and most of these men are very charming in the beginning sometimes it takes years for the true colours to come through

I mean, lots of men are also living with crap partners. Men don’t have a monopoly on being complete arseholes. I’m pretty sure that if I drew up a list of all the total cunts I’ve ever met, it would be about 50-50 men and women.

Great, so did my DH actually. But I’m not naive enough to believe that this happens in a lot of relationships.

You can argue it all you like, it may not apply to you or I, but it is a fact that women are disadvantaged in the workplace, it is a fact that women are often paid less than men and it is a fact that women often do more of the unpaid work in the home.

You are putting the emphasis on women to do better, earn more, find better partners when you know, men should just be better partners and businesses should provide equal opportunity and pay regardless of gender or caring responsibilities. Women are living in poor, and often abusive, relationships because they cannot afford to leave.

Many issues (whether incompetence, or abuse) don't present themselves until a woman is pregnant or has had the child(ren). Some (many?!) men appear to be good partner/parent material on paper but don't meet expectations when reality sets in.

Exactly why do you think this should be the job of schools?