Why are so many women living with crap partners?

[Mischance]

I know that Mumsnet is not representative of women in general, and that people are more likely to post if they have problems than if all is hunky dory, but ........ it is so sad to see women living their lives with such unpleasant men as if having a man in your life is more important than happiness and contentment.

In so many of these posts it is as if the women really do not think they matter, and will put up with any old rubbish in order to hang on to a man. They "really love" someone who even they can see is objectively a waster. And both they and their children suffer.

Do our schools need to be teaching girls that they matter in their own right; actively talking about the single life and the advantages/disadvantages of this, boosting their self esteem at every opportunity so they do not fall into this grim trap?

I know that there are lots of great men out there and lots of happy partnerships, and also relationships that have their ups and downs whilst being basically sound, but women need the tools to proceed in life independently rather than be sucked into these miserable relationships.

I’m in Australia and it’s extremely rare for anyone not to drive. But that said, of the dozen or so people I know who don’t drive, all are women and most are in difficult relationships who I suspect would leave if they could drive.

I know there are very good medical reasons why some people can’t drive. But if you don’t have a medical reason, please, please learn. Slightly off-topic I know. Not driving comes up as a huge LTB barrier on many MN threads too.

Driving lessons are about £40 an hour in the UK. Idk how it is in Australia, I heard in the USA they have lessons in high school but here in the UK it is very expensive to learn.
Being a small population dense country a lot of people don't bother to learn because everything is on their doorstep

Like many of my female friends, I went through a bit of a 'nesting' stage when OH and I bought a house together. I was excited to make the house nice and cook nice meals... it's only now that the novelty has worn off I realise I had made a rod for my own back by making it the norm that I take care of many of the traditionally female chores at home. Now, while I would prefer to live alone, I like the house and lifestyle I've created (no kids, decent disposable income, lots of freedom) and I would lose that.

If I had my time again I'd rather have bought a house with other childfree female friends instead of with a male partner!

Schools don’t need to teach that. Parents do.

I put it down to the Patriarchy and hormones.

It wasn’t until I hit the menopause that my ‘caring/nurturing’ feelings took a drastic fall. I looked around and realised that the give and take in my marriage only went one way - all give on my part, all take on his.

If you had asked me before if a bunch of nebulous hormones could change my behaviour and feelings so much, I would have scoffed. But looking back my feelings when young and in love and motherhood were exactly that.

Along with the patriarchy and girls being socialised to be kinder, I think hormones play a big part.

Young girls fall in love and mostly it brings out a lot of caring qualities in them for their partner. They will happily do anything that makes their partner feel loved and cared for.

Boys and men on the other hand (plus ingrained role models) have hormones that make them more competitive and I believe leads to an inherent selfishness.

Early in the relationship the give and take doesn’t feel so unfair, but as soon as children appear - the inequality starts to be felt. But motherhood often leaves the woman too emotionally/physically/drained to deal with the inequality at the time.

I am in no way blaming women. It’s men that need to step up. If they are being treated well by their partner, they should want to reciprocate fully, but they seldom do. They get away with what they can - boys nights out, not sharing housework and often having a sense of entitlement that allows them to do this with no sense of moral shame.

Im hoping that our young women will start insisting that men share the work (mental/emotional and physical). And god forbid, some young men may actually want to do this too!

You can leave an abusive or negative relationship even if you don't drive. Plenty of women do so.

In theory I agree but I don’t think it’s the case in practice.

All Sorts comes into play. Socioeconomic background for example.

This doesn’t even begin to cover financial abuse or women choosing to stop working when they have children and becoming excluded from the world of work to some degree. Sounds like a choice but it’s not always.

In reality women do not always have the same opportunities as men, though it would be great if they did.

Growing up girls and boys have the same opportunities at school to get good grades and go onto learning a trade, further education, training.
Why are more girls not wanting to become engineers, doctors, physicists instead of hairdressers, nail salons, etc. We need more men becoming primary teachers, nurses and nursery staff to set good role models.

Thread after thread of women "not getting a proposal", desperate for a man to propose, waiting for an engagement ring, the big romantic moment. Why?
It's not just one or two, and seems so regressive.

I honestly don’t know. My sister had an appalling relationship with a complete arse hole for years. She was the higher earner. They had a lovely big house so I think that was part of the reason. When they split up she was almost instantly happier.
I was a lone parent for years and years and it wasn’t that hard. There’s no way I would have let a crap man into our lives, but I’d built up systems and a network to manage. Now I work with people in coupes who “can’t” attend in person meetings because they have no childcare and I see a lot of people with children who have no contingencies plans. I knew other lone mums who I could do child swaps with, I was always willing to take on other peoples kids to bank reciprocal favours. I lived near family specifically to be near back up.
I found a career where I could train and gain qualifications to enable me to earn more and buy my own house.
I think it would be more difficult to do what I did now actually, post COVID, because more people WFH so the reciprocal childcare wouldn’t be needed. People seem more isolated, women are increasingly getting cut off from networks. Now my kids are grown I am able to be totally independent. I have a partner but I don’t need him. I like him, and he’s very supportive and makes my life easier, but I know I can manage just fine alone. Most women could.
And most men will behave better when they know you don’t need them…

Because they put themselves in a financial and lifestyle position that they can’t live on a single salary

I couldn’t afford to drive for years. My kids were used to walking and getting on buses carrying shopping bags! I’d take their friends places on trains and buses and they would be all excited at the novelty 😂

@CrocsNotDocs

Thank you for the advice.

I did actually get my driving license but it was years ago and I passed and never drove after that as my circumstances changed. I also don’t have access to a car and wouldn’t be able to afford one if I left. The transport in my area is so good so I don’t need one and would only need to drive if I had to move a long way away.

Financial. Doesn’t want to split the house and pension

All children absolutely do not have equal opportunities in school. Children in poverty do not have the same outcomes as children who are not living in poverty. Children from minority groups face disparities compared with white children.

Girls actually do tend to have better educational outcomes than boys, yet men tend to have more lucrative careers. Why do you think that might be?

There's a culture in the UK of wanting to live in a massive house even if the mortgage is a stretch and is making people miserable trying to pay it.

Brits are obsessed with how they look to the outside world and would rather stay in shitty relationships and put on a face than lead an authentic life where they drive older and less exciting cars or live in smaller less exciting houses even if they are happier in their soul without the responsibility.

It's a national disease.

I like how the French see cars as a way of getting from A to B and if it's got a bit of gaffer tape holding the back wing on, they don't care. They largely seem to be free of all the consumerism that is like a millstone around the necks of the British.

I always find it sad when posters say ‘I won’t be leaving until the kids are older because I like our situation’, the kids have to know everything else is wrong, you can’t live with an unhappy couple and not be affected.

personally I think women leave everything to themselves, they do all the work in the house and all the childcare then by the time they figure out they’ve been doing too much everything is entrenched and they realise everything is crap. I work at a checkout and the women tell the men to stand aside while they try and pack and handle the children too, they snap at their partners they’re doing it wrong and grab bags and I think these are the people on mn

Jobs/salaries within society are structured like a triangle though, aren't they - many low paid jobs, fewer well paid jobs. It is simply impossible for everyone within the country to have well paid jobs because the less well paid jobs still need doing.

Even a few years ago it was easier for people to get by on a single salary, but it's becoming increasingly difficult - I earn a bit above the national average but am scraping by - if I lived with my bf life would be a lot more enjoyable financially. So I can easily see how people will put up with a certain amount of crap behaviour.

Like a pp said as well, people cling on to the good moments and hope that the bad bits are temporary.

In an abusive relationship people are often left with low self esteem, feeling trapped and helpless.

I am surprised though when people say they love the person so much (there's a thread on here at the moment about someone being kicked by their partner, but she loves him so much) - I do struggle to understand that. I've been in an abusive relationship and the abuse certainly killed the love long before I felt able to escape.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5299511-furious-at-my-lazy-fuck-of-a-boyfriend
Yet another one this morning.

Peer / social and parental pressure

I’ve told our 16 yr male that this summer after exams, he will be learning how to wash clothes.

He wants to go to uni, he wants to not live with us.

He can change his bed, tidy, hoover, cook (a fair bit), so laundry, waste disposal and washing up are next on the list. Then paying bills, admin, shopping to a budget.

As well as you want to be big man well you need to look after yourself and be respectful of others and control any temper, this comes under ethics and philosophy though.

Can’t for the life of me get them to master “hang up wet towels” but I will just not sure how!

It’s not difficult (apart from the towels) why don’t some parents do this?

I hear all these big traps in life for women - but maybe if this was discussed at school, and information about how to get out of it, and books to read about it all - some great books are recommended on here to women in these situations - but how much better if they had read them beforehand!

Some sort of life plan lessons with algorithms of where each choice might lead and the encouragement to set goals outlining what they want in life - with being a mum and homemaker included in that.

And the same for the boys too.

So much more use than fronted adverbials.

Exactly why do you think this should be the job of schools? - why not?

They teach all sorts of stuff that the pupils will never use (and that often puts them off school) but the really fundamental things that people need to know (both boys and girls) about the realities of relationships, partnerships, parenthood, finances etc. are left to the vagaries of chance.

Pupils need to be talking about what makes a good partner, what is the single life like, the trap of falling in love and committing before thinking the future through, how to be a good father or mother, what children need from their parents etc. etc. This really is education for life. Sadly it cannot always be left to the parents.

They do but they still don't get paid the same.

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

I had to leave education at 17 to afford somewhere to live. I was not afforded the same opportunity as my husband, who had a public school education and uni paid for.

I was a straight A kid grade wise though, so took the opportunity I was given while in education.

I gather from your post you are male and haven’t experienced trying to progress in a male dominated workplace?