Thread 20 Starmer - Spring Statement

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5286167-thread-19-starmer-a-coalition-of-the-willing?page=40&reply=142981585

We can afford it all if we rebalance the economy. Far too much is concentrated in far too few hands. It’s not an easy situation to change but the rest of us will all just get poorer and poorer until we sort it out.
This guy is interesting. He’s an economist, ex financial trader and a multi millionaire so not someone who just wants everyone else’s money, as inequality activists are often characterised . https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHQS9f0SUpt/?igsh=MTl2ZmdqZno2NjV6NQ==

@BIWI

No I still don’t know what you meant and I doubt you meant all (and only) those on my list. But assuming I guessed accurately why would those with no kids stay here to pay more tax if they don’t agree with the countries direction or what Labour spend the tax money on.

If you are single, with a good job and savings you could emigrate.
If you own a business you could move it abroad. Or close the head office in the U.K. and work from a lower tax nation.

America is introducing a tax on imported products, maybe that will stop companies employing cheap labour abroad and avoiding American labour taxes and tax associated with business? Bringing more wealth into the country that is buying the products. So yes I guess that’s an option here. It will be interesting to see how the USA economy looks in 3 years vs EU vs UK.

Another suggestion - Employers need to pay more tax? The minimum wage is rising and NI is rising (and threshold lowering) small businesses are laying people off and sadly some are going bankrupt. Corporates are reducing headcount. I know a few companies are now not taking on apprentices this year.

Sainsbury’s 3000 job cuts
Frasers 30%
Aldi 350 at risk
Nationwide building society
Quiz 23 shops
morrisons 52 cafes

37 shops lost a day last year.

Guardian article says that is expected to rise to 17350 in 2025.

That was from a quick google.

On paper I could afford to pay another 10% in tax - I could stop paying for children’s clubs and change my car after 12 years instead of 8/10 years. I could stop buying farmers produce and buy everything at Aldi rather than from a few places. I could give up all the charities I support. And sell my second hand clothes and toys and books on EBay or FB rather than donating them. I could stop my weekly coffee at the local family run cafe. All of this would impact on other people (small businesses who run kids clubs, farm shops, UK charities as I only support the charities in the country I live in, plus charity shops/charity that I donate to). I spend in my community and support local events by attending, buying tickets, giving raffle prizes etc.

But that’s only worth it if I agree with most of what Labour are spending money on. If I don’t agree then an alternative is I look to emigrate.

Where will you emigrate to?

But your posts have just proved the point @43percentburnt - there are many other ways that we could be increasing revenue to the Treasury. We don’t have to hit those who are most vulnerable.

And yes, of course, the wealthy could leave. Many of them have always done that, to avoid paying tax.

What - for me - is unforgivable - is that a government that was elected on the promise of being hard working and bold has decided "Nah, fuck that. Lazy and cowardly is they way forwards".

If our timid and cowering government is indeed a reflection the public they rule (you notice I've been honest and not said "serve") then they can fuck off and we may as well write (nicely) to our new leader that nice Mr. Putin.

"Glasnost"
"Perestroika"

we can already half speak Russian

Where any individual poster moves isn’t really the point - the more salient datapoint for @43percentburnt ’s is the number of millionaires leaving the UK, which is second only to China in wealth flight. Clearly there are lots of places that now seem sufficiently more attractive to wealthy individuals that they’re willing to accept the disruption and emigrate. The same will be true of businesses who reduce investment in the uk or leave it entirely. Overly taxing a small group isn’t going to bring in enough to solve all our problems anyways - we need a broader tax base and higher economic growth, but I don’t thing Labour have the political will for the first nor the right ideas / follow through for the second.

if my kids were not settled in a good (private) school I would be looking at my options- dual national working in a globally competitive field means I have lots of options. In any case I will definitely be encouraging my children to go elsewhere for uni and beyond.

We shouldn't be spending billions on migrant hotels...we spent £3billion in23/24 that is eye watering...and all the accompanying costs. We need to get tough...we cannot afford it, we should be like Australia only accept those with skills we need and not all and sundry ...many of whom are only here to game the system.

The cut to pensioners fuel allowance is sickening and set the way of thinking of Labour.

We simply cannot afford the welfare/sickness costs they are astronomical since Covid...it does need addressing.

We have far too high immigration especially from poorer countries that are net takers they don't earnt enough if they are indeed in work to contribute. We had.circa £10 million in the last decade or so, although probably much higher...the numbers are unsustainable.

Never known it so bad it is scary on so many fronts.

I agree that:

• Productivity is pitiful and wages have not risen in real terms for years whilst house prices have outstripped everything else.
• Our tax system needs overhauling with some thought given to the way it disincentivises people. At one end, the tax credit system discourages people from taking on extra hours, because of the way it screws up their benefit claim. At the other end the 100,000 cliff-edge is stopping high earners from taking on more hours because the loss of their tax-free income and childcare (if they have children). Yes; this matters because no-one wants to work more or take a risk on a promotion only to see it clawed back in 60% tax. We need more affluence across the board and people encouraged to increase their wages.

Finally we also need to simplify the business exemptions, perhaps use a land tax instead of valuation banding for homes and increase the VAT threshold for businesses. That's another significant barrier - the minute your turnover hit £7.5k a month, you need to pay 20% on everything to HMRC (separate from the tax on profits). It's a huge increase and can mean the difference between an SME taking on employees or cutting back to stay under the limit.

• Tax is going to increase (its up to 37%). We have more people with lifelong disabilities and more pensioners. They tend to be heavy NHS users - there's no way around it. I suspect, by the time I reach old age, the triple lock will be gone and there will be more emphasis on preventative medicine. In the meantime, mental health and social care issues are being ignored by everyone.

• We need to increase defence. No way around it. Which can be paid for if we stop the 4% stupidity tax we imposed on ourselves with the Brexit trade barriers.

Anyone young and ambitious I'd be advising to get out as the UK is in an utter XXXX show at the moment run by incompetents that have zero idea how businesses operate it is truly horrific! I can only hope they do not last another 4 years...

The best way to quickly raise money would be to at a point or two to VAT or basic rate income tax, but Labour don’t have the guts. Longer term we need stronger economic growth, but Labour don’t seem to have a coherent vision for how to achieve that and the mixed messages for business have been disastrous.

and you should be very concerned by the number of wealthy individuals leaving the UK at the moment - not just for implications on tax revenue, but for what it signals for investment.

Where should they emigrate to?

They are following Ant Middleton, Tice and Oakshotte to Dubai.

Complain about immigration whilst encouraging emigration

Quite.

If I were in Government the first thing I would have done is reverse Hunt's NI cuts.
Then I'd make the case for the Single Market. Astonishing we are still having to drag our heels over this.

The best way to quickly raise money would be to at a point or two to VAT or basic rate income tax,

Or join the customs union with the EU ? If mythical "sovereignty" is the excuse to shit on the vulnerable then it can fuck right off.

but Labour don’t have the guts.

Attacking the vulnerable is cowardly and craven.

We need to rewrite the Bible such that Jesus expels the cripples from Jerusalem (at their own expense) , and invites the money lenders into the temple. We could call it "The Book of Cunts".

I regret I have but one upvote to give you.

Yep as they are totally different as we are we are importing net takers and losing net givers...

losing those who would contribute and bringing in a lot of those that are on the take...wealth flight!

too hard to comprehend ...🙄

we don't need more Deliveroo drivers on bikes

Will you or your children take over the deliveroo deliveries?

Oh dear - I don’t think you really understand immigration or how it benefits us.

And @ilovebrie8 you don’t have to be coy when swearing. You can say ‘shit’ (or any other 4-letter word) on MN.

And those who are emigrating because they don’t want to pay tax are hardly givers!

This all loops back to trickle down economics which has been disproved.

www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy-only-benefit-the-rich-debunking-trickle-down-economics

Which country - depends on skill sets- I know people leaving and heading to a few different places. A couple are heading to the USA and one to UAE. An acquaintance to Denmark and one to Canada. Few Polish friends are going home as they no longer feel safe here. One Romanian heading home once house is sold. Another person is looking at NZ. But they all have different skill sets/situations.

The Danish study on immigration shows the British are high net contributors and low for violent crime. In the next few years it may be that British young adults are seen as desirable economically. We have encouraged other countries skilled young adults to come here. It may be that other countries do the same to us. If young people can’t afford to buy a house and have a family/ safety and opportunity is a concern then we have to accept they will leave. Like my Polish friends did 18 years ago when they felt they had more opportunity here. I don’t remember the U.K. gov in 2005/8 worrying about what the effect on Poland would be if their young adults left.

As for worrying about who will work for deliveroo / uber etc. It was reported that people were sharing log ins and people were working illegally. This may be uninsured motorbikes/cars and not paying tax at best, at worst exploiting illegal or trafficked people. With the cost of living in the U.K. we shouldn’t be exploiting people and encouraging them to move here so we can have curry or pizza or macdonalds delivered to our houses.

It really doesn’t, but crack on.

We shouldn't be exploiting people

See Labour's Employments Rights Bill

Although businesses don't seem too keen on it