Being born after the death of a sibling - do you have a connection with them?

[goodovationsonly]

This is obviously a hugely emotive topic for those in this position, so please step away if it's going to upset you. I'd genuinely be interested to hear others' perspectives on this, and if I should ever speak to my friend about it.
I had a colleague and we are still in touch via social media. Her first child was diagnosed antenatally as having an incompatible with life syndrome, and they decided to continue with the pregnancy. Their ds was born and after a fairly short time they brought him home on palliative care. She knew he was going to die fairly soon so TTC and got pregnant when he was 2 months old. Her ds was adorable and she shared lots of detail to document it. Life was difficult, his health was extremely fragile and he needed to be resuscitated quite a lot, friend's life was very restricted as she couldn't expose him to any infection etc. Sadly he died a week before baby 2 was born, but lived much longer than anyone imagined.
From the second baby was born every single post was in relation and/or a comparison to child 1. The parents were obviously in the throes of grief, but at times I wondered if this child would look back on these posts and feel bad that there was nothing solely about them. All hashtags were #jonnyslittlebro (not real name).
Child is now 3 and they still very heavily document life, so I see very regular updates. Child 1 is included in everything, so let's say it's a milestone for child 2, such as a birthday or potty training, a present will also be bought for child 1. Any time they go out for a walk, they will see signs of child 1, whether it be a rainbow/plant/feather. Child 2 kisses a picture of child 1 goodnight before bed every night and talks about "my brother". Every christmas there is a stocking for child 1, and child 2 is now responsible for choosing presents for it. I'm keeping it very brief here, but child 1 is still very much incorporated into their lives, and the parents very much love that child 2 talks about his brother voluntarily and includes him (which has obviously been heavily encouraged by them) in daily life. It's all fine as child is still very young, but it made me worry that child will feel under pressure to do this as he gets older. Three years on the parents are still very much grieving for child 1 (totally expected) but it seems quite unhealthy to me how much child 2 is living in child 1's shadow, and is expected to stay there.

I remembered a thread years ago where a poster said she took her young dc to visit her mum's grave very regularly, and that they had a close relationship. (DGM died before dc was born). A poster replied "sorry to say this but they don't have a relationship, she's dead and they never met" and the poster was really upset by this. To her, there was a bond/relationship between them that she had facilitated and it was important to her that she encouraged this. So it was for her benefit really.

I'm at the stage now where I'm wondering if I should very gently try to speak to friend about this? I don't want to hurt her of course, she's still having grief counselling but I worry she still cannot see her ds2 as a person in his own right and this will affect him.

If you were the child born after a sibling death, how has it impacted you?

Mind your own business, you don’t appear to have a close relationship with her and know nothing about her life apart from social media.

For what it's worth, no, I don't think that this is healthy or fair for this child. Doubt you can do anything though.

I expected replies like this, which is why I asked for people who have experienced this as a child. We are aren't best friends, no, but she posts about 10 facebook stories a day and gives a very detailed account of what was said/done, so I have a fairly good insight. I'm not asking this out of malice, her hurt is still so raw, and she didn't have any time to process this before ds2 was born, and maybe this is clouding her judgement. Or, maybe it's not and there are lots of children who grow up like this. This is why I'm asking.

As someone who has been in the same situation as your friend, everyone copes differently. Your friend probably feels guilty for moving on. Fwiw we don’t often mention dd1, but her photos are in our house and she is talked about from time to time. We are probably the opposite extreme to your friend and should do more to link her with her siblings.

In answer to your question, unless this is your best friend or sister (in which case you could maybe, VERY gently say something), no don’t day anything. I would be massively upset and offended if I were your friend.

Not like this no.

My mum had twins after me. One died a few hours after birth. They were almost never mentioned again.

My friend’s brother died as a baby before he was born. He was given his dead brother’s name. Exactly the same name.

Baby death is horrific and I think parents do whatever they need to to get through each day, usually without much consideration for other children.

Years ago people would have been expected to squash down their grief and have another baby quickly to replace them, often giving the 2nd child the same name as the first one. Even longer ago I think some rich parents would adopt a child from the orphanage or work house of the same age as their child who died and give them the name of their child who died. I'm not just talking about babies either, I'm talking about 5-10 year old's who must have been extremely confused.

I can't imagine what those parents are going through but you can't expect a child to grieve for someone they have never met, that's not fair on them. It's good to talk about the relatives though. My dc love hearing funny stories about their grandad who died when they were much younger.

It's incredibly incredibly damaging for the living child. But given that you're not close, I can't imagine that there's a thing you can do about it.

I think it's tragic, and it's a kind of unintended abuse.
I have a problem with such children even being referred to as rainbow babies once they're born, and especially if their spoken about as such when they're old enough to take it in.

Children that follow a miscarriage, still birth or perinatal loss, deserve to exist and be loved for themselves. Not to be forever linked to the sibling they never knew.

I have huge sympathy for parents who suffer a loss, but managing their feelings by placing this burden on their subsequent child, is spectacularly unfair. I get how hard it much be for those close to them to point that out, but for the child's sake, I think they should.

You absolutely can’t say anything to this woman because you’re not close enough. You say she’s your friend but also that she’s an old colleague you’re in touch with on social media. Therefore nowhere near close enough to get involved.
apart from that I agree with what you have said and feel bad for this child. Also goes without saying that the parents have huge sympathy though also

I am the second child following the death of a first. I was born 12 months after the death and then my sister was born 2 1/2 years after me. I have spent my whole life feeling unloved, denigrated and belittled. My mother never grieved for the lost child but had me as a replacement and I don't feel as though I've ever been enough. I'm 60 now and still trying to get my mothers love and approval.
From my perspective it's vital to grieve the loss of a child before having another. It has cast a shadow over my whole life

I agree. DH older brother died before he was born and he feels like every major event in his life was never his and always about his brother.

Thank you for the replies. @WisePearlPoet I'm so sorry this happened to you, and it is how I fear the ds2 will feel. The parents are brilliant people and parents, and are obviously so keen to keep ds1 'in the family', but as an outsider at times it appears that the ds2 is a tool to keep ds1's memory alive. I cannot imagine what they have gone through, losing a child is one thing but his life was highly medicalized and with that came a very tangible layer of trauma too. I totally understand that families try to cope in different ways, my friend would be horrified at the thought of outsiders perceiving this, she's a very good parent but still so pained by the loss of her ds1. I won't say anything to her, thank you all for the input.

Not from my parents but a couple of aunts would usually gush on about how i was a "special gift" from my sister to my parents (my BD is December 25th), and how I should "live [my] life for her because she never had the chance to know life" Every time I achieved anything it was met by " she made sure that happened for you" never a "well done" or any acknowledgement that I had worked hard to reach that point, no it was all because my sister had made it happen. If I messed up it would be " you've let her down, why are you throwing away the opportunities your sister never got to have, it's so unfair of you" and other such bollox. TBH I started to resent this girl I had never met for in my eyes, at least, making me feel like 2nd best.
Both aunts are long gone now but their comments stayed with me for years and it took a long time for me to feel pride in myself and to live life for me and not somebody I ultimately have no connection with.

ETA. My parents often spoke of my sister but it was done fondly and her birthday was a day of reflection rather than sadness. I know that she was always thought about by them at Christmas but she wasn't spoken about as that was a day for their living children, particularly me, and not a day to (unintentionally), make us feel guilty for having fun.

OP what you’re seeing is entirely through the lens of social media.

It might be the tip of the iceberg of a messed up way to raise their second child - or it might just be one part of the mum’s way of processing her grief so it doesn’t impact her surviving child.

You don’t have any insight into their daily lives and the surviving child’s experience of living with those parents.

What you have is snapshots of how the mum is choosing to present in social media stories.

Sharing stories is a means of processing grief - social media can be a safe avenue to do that, and in fact reduce the impact of sibling death on young children.

Please don’t say anything - you could cause an awful lot of extra hurt and long term damage.

You’re not close enough to this ex-colleague to know what’s really happening, let alone to give unsolicited and un-informed advice on their unique parenting situation.

Losing a first born whilst pregnant with second born is a deeply complex trauma - and that’s before you throw in the life limiting and caring struggle specifics of this story.

There’s a reason there are specialist counsellors for bereavement, and for bereavement of a child.

As a not close adult who has not been in those shoes and is not trained in therapeutic care of bereaved parents with complex trauma, you risk doing a lot of harm and setting back their journey as a family to survive and thrive.

As gently as possible… you have no idea how they are surviving or how to help them do the best they can. Be glad you don’t have to know what it’s like to be in their shoes.

It might be via social media, but these things happened, to be put up there:

Child 2 kisses a picture of child 1 goodnight before bed every night and talks about "my brother". Every christmas there is a stocking for child 1, and child 2 is now responsible for choosing presents for it.

It's not pretence on social media. It's not just the mother just sharing her own thoughts. She's actually making her child do these things. The social media is irrelevant. She's attaching the lost child to her living son and that's incredibly unhealthy for him.

Being grateful that we don't have to bear her loss, doesn't mean that we have to watch a child being damaged and not say anything. They're must be close family who are worried about what's being done to that child. Someone needs to step up and try to protect him.

As someone who has lost a child as a baby, I would suggest that you reframe this to think that these children are indeed siblings, and should their first born have survived, their second would be sharing toys, playing together, arguing etc etc. What they are doing sounds totally appropriate for a grieving family who are including their first born as part of their family, because they are. See: Continuing bonds.

I wouldn’t say anything unless you’re a close family member or really close friend, which it doesn’t sound like you are.

Firstly remember that what we see on social media doesn’t necessarily relflect real life, and secondly everyone grieves differently, I have a colleague who it seems almost weekly posts on social media for all of her dead relatives and dead pets birthdays stuff like ‘you would have been 112 today, I miss you sooo much’, but in real life she’s very happy and not dwelling on it, it’s just her way of remembering.

Your certainty that a child is being damaged to the extent that “someone needs to step up to protect him” is totally over the top.

The dead sibling is his brother. And he lives in a family where that brother also lived, with parents who are living with that loss right on top of the sibling’s birth.

My god, the judgement oooozing out is just awful.

No wonder bereaved parents struggle so hard to heal their families, when this is how they get talked about by total strangers with zero understanding of what it’s actually like to live that life.

I agree with much of this and stopped referring to my DC2 as my rainbow baby when I realised it wasn’t fair to burden her with it. My long and difficult journey to pregnancy, my stillborn son, my grief, are not part of her identity.

However we have always been quite open about her older brother and she talks about him sometimes - she would like to have shared bunk beds with him for example.

Your friend is keeping her eldest child’s memory alive and that’s understandable, but having a constant comparison to the younger one may be damaged in the long term.

How long has it been since the child died? I find the kissing the picture a bit odd, but that's my approach to not do it that way. Maybe the mother wants her child to be aware that they aren't the first born, maybe she feels she is betraying her first child if they move on at this stage. I do know parents who have said they keep a picture of a lost child by the bed and they kiss it goodnight every night themselves.

My children are bereaved siblings and I'm less of an incorporator than your friend, but I don't deny the existence of the other child. I've sometimes wondered how I would handle this with grandchildren who might see photos and ask questions. It's really up to their parents but I think just answering with who that is and that they're in heaven (or whatever answer their parents want them to hear) is the way to go. My children know that if they want to go to the cemetery, or have questions or some other need, they can just bring it up and I'll take care of it, but they are also a lot older than this little one of your friend.

I'd stay out of it. Everyone grieves differently and your friend's loss sounds pretty fresh still. They need to do it their way.

I agree. I was a live baby born after a tragedy.

My life was enormously overshadowed by my dead sibling who I never met. My parents inserted them into everything. I hated it as a child.

I felt like the back up child. We spent many many special occasions in the graveyard. Birthdays, anniversaries and Christmases felt like a wake.

I feel horribly sorry for my parents but I had a fucked up childhood.

You should stay out of it, and take this identifying post down.

Lots of us are bereaved parents, and, no, we don't get it perfectly right, because there is no handbook.

The thing there is plenty of are snidey people ready to judge a situation they have no comprehension of.

My parents went the opposite way and never mentioned our older sibling until we were maybe 9 or 10. But they also did the same as a poster upthread and gave the same name to their next child of that sex. I wonder if it was recommended at some point as a 'way to get over it'?

Looking on Ancestry gave me a jolt, as it looked like my living sibling's date of death was on there.

Absolutely do not speak to her about it. It's not your place to do that, I expect someone she is closer to will express that opinion at some point anyway.

I'm not being snide. My area of expertise is child development and psychology. And I was a child born after a still birth.

It's very hard for me to see children being damaged (and yes, it is damaging) and no-one being brave enough to sensitively talk about it with the parent.

I never said you were being snide, but the op definitely is, broadcasting an acquaintances trauma on a site they may well be on and inviting people to judge the way they are grieving.