Being born after the death of a sibling - do you have a connection with them?

[goodovationsonly]

This is obviously a hugely emotive topic for those in this position, so please step away if it's going to upset you. I'd genuinely be interested to hear others' perspectives on this, and if I should ever speak to my friend about it.
I had a colleague and we are still in touch via social media. Her first child was diagnosed antenatally as having an incompatible with life syndrome, and they decided to continue with the pregnancy. Their ds was born and after a fairly short time they brought him home on palliative care. She knew he was going to die fairly soon so TTC and got pregnant when he was 2 months old. Her ds was adorable and she shared lots of detail to document it. Life was difficult, his health was extremely fragile and he needed to be resuscitated quite a lot, friend's life was very restricted as she couldn't expose him to any infection etc. Sadly he died a week before baby 2 was born, but lived much longer than anyone imagined.
From the second baby was born every single post was in relation and/or a comparison to child 1. The parents were obviously in the throes of grief, but at times I wondered if this child would look back on these posts and feel bad that there was nothing solely about them. All hashtags were #jonnyslittlebro (not real name).
Child is now 3 and they still very heavily document life, so I see very regular updates. Child 1 is included in everything, so let's say it's a milestone for child 2, such as a birthday or potty training, a present will also be bought for child 1. Any time they go out for a walk, they will see signs of child 1, whether it be a rainbow/plant/feather. Child 2 kisses a picture of child 1 goodnight before bed every night and talks about "my brother". Every christmas there is a stocking for child 1, and child 2 is now responsible for choosing presents for it. I'm keeping it very brief here, but child 1 is still very much incorporated into their lives, and the parents very much love that child 2 talks about his brother voluntarily and includes him (which has obviously been heavily encouraged by them) in daily life. It's all fine as child is still very young, but it made me worry that child will feel under pressure to do this as he gets older. Three years on the parents are still very much grieving for child 1 (totally expected) but it seems quite unhealthy to me how much child 2 is living in child 1's shadow, and is expected to stay there.

I remembered a thread years ago where a poster said she took her young dc to visit her mum's grave very regularly, and that they had a close relationship. (DGM died before dc was born). A poster replied "sorry to say this but they don't have a relationship, she's dead and they never met" and the poster was really upset by this. To her, there was a bond/relationship between them that she had facilitated and it was important to her that she encouraged this. So it was for her benefit really.

I'm at the stage now where I'm wondering if I should very gently try to speak to friend about this? I don't want to hurt her of course, she's still having grief counselling but I worry she still cannot see her ds2 as a person in his own right and this will affect him.

If you were the child born after a sibling death, how has it impacted you?

That's also my area of expertise and I don't think we have enough information from the parent or about the situation to make an evaluation of what is going on.

I do agree it would be very unhealthy to grow up in the shadow, or always defined by, the deceased sibling.

However, the child is only 3, so the loss is still very fresh and the parents are probably experiencing a sense of betrayal if they 'forget' their earlier child. They may be working out how to handle this with their older one still. They may simply need some grief counselling or to connect with a support group, so they can talk to other parents about handling the situation with subsequent children.

As a child born after a child bereavement I agree, it very often does have a huge negative impact on the surviving child.

I’m in my 40s and still having counselling over my childhood.

I agree with a previous poster - you've posted a lot of information about someone else's trauma. Imagine your friend is on here and sees this?
You can overshare about your own life all you want, but it's not fair to do it to someone else.

I was born after my sister died at 18 months old (she had been ill all her short life) my dad made it clear he hadn't wanted me and I was an accident although he was not a great person anyway but I felt loved by my mum, my sister was mentioned but not constantly, if someone asks about my siblings I always mention her even though I never met her.

I don’t think it’s your place to say anything really. The 2nd kid knowing about the 1st is fine knowing he did exist but the rest for me is downright creepy.

The opposite .. I wish we could have spoken about him. His abscence was deafening.

Bloody he'll are you judge Judy op? It's not really your business is it

I had a brother who was stillborn my dm never once referred to us dc as rainbow babies, we were individuals in our own right. I can't ever imagine how a child would feel living in someone's shadow.

I lost my sister and it wasn't mentioned ever, I was told was a teenager when my parents felt I was ready and then again it hasn't been mentioned since. Part of me is grateful as it shows some strength from my parents, but part of me wonders whether it would have been nice to have her "around" a bit more.

I think every child has different needs and it can be hard to find that balance as parents. Your parents may also have found it easier to bury it, so to avoid emotions.

My children knew their sibling and I know it's hard to find that balance between not hiding grief, because they need to know it's okay to grieve and have feelings themselves, and not traumatising them with your grief. I'm not sure that latter is possible if they witness it first hand. It's traumatic by nature.

I think it's good you weren't raised in the shadow of your sibling but I also understand that having it like a hidden family secret isn't ideal either.

I think it’s early days still. Your friend lost a child in devastating circumstances and then had another child almost immediately.

I did almost exactly the same, antenatal diagnosis, death at 3 months, her life was extremely traumatic and I had a PTSD diagnosis. I had a slightly longer gap, she died in January, my son was born in December. His entire pregnancy we were writing a complaint, getting her notes, seeking resolution.

We should have waited. I was very unwell for his first year and got pregnant again when he was 15 months. I had lots of mental health help but honestly he was probably three and a half/four before things began to improve. My daughter would be 10 this September. I feel like I’ve been very well for about three years but only now do I have the time and space to do trauma treatment.

My firstborn is part of our lives but not the centre. My kids know of her but aren’t preoccupied with her. Things naturally adjusted as they grew older and their lives got busier.

Your friend needs to get some space in her life to grieve and deal with trauma, busy life with a three year old may not be it. What she is doing may just be what she has to do. With a tiny newborn she had no time to grieve the first child and life likely hasnt yet let up enough so she can stop and allow herself to grieve. Even now mine are 6 and 8, I wonder if it’s the right time for trauma treatment, if I can let all that we denied back into our lives, into their lives.

It’s easy to say she needs to grieve and deal with trauma but she likely knows how much that will take from her child. She doesn’t want to devote that time to getting better when he still needs her so much. She’s likely hanging by a thread and the choice is this or an absent mother for months as she recovers.

I'm not sure how the OP can possibly think she knows better than the bereaved parents in this situation.

The mother's grief and trauma is going to come out one way or another. There is no handbook for her to follow but at least she's in therapy and has found a way to manage with memories of her son. Leave her be.

As PP put it - she could be hanging on by a thread. Take away her grieving process and you may cause immeasurable pain.

This thread is really distasteful I really hope the person whose life your putting up on the internet doesn’t see it

actually really horrible 😡

Agree. It’s bad enough reading as a bereaved parent, getting a glimpse of how judged our every move is with subsequent children.

Yes by horrible judgemental idiots that haven’t walked in these shoes
xx

It sounds terribly unhealthy. The present buying and stockings are particularly ghoulish.

but I doubt they will listen to anything.

I wouldn't mention it to mum but I would feel really sorry for 2nd child.
What kind of childhood is this? A sad one.

OP, I know someone who behaves in this way and I've always felt so sorry for the second and third children in the family. The events in their lives are always connected to their elder sibling who passed at less than 2 weeks old. I know the parents are grieving but it's like the living children live in the shadow of what might have been if the eldest child had lived and it comes across like they are not enough.
They've had professional family portraits where they hold a framed photo of the baby who passed. When the children start school the post is about how the older child should have been there to look after them. It makes me feel so sad for the living children.

I was born after a string of losses. They were also never able to have another child after me.

I don't feel any connection to those "before me" as such. I'm aware it happened and that my mother is sometimes sad about it, but I was raised as, and identify as an only child.

I don't think it's healthy to grow up in the shadow of a ghost.

That sounds horrific and I'd go as far as to say that it's abuse. It's macabre.

The thing is, even if you get unanimous responses from people who've been in this situation is your friend going to hear an intervention from you?

Have they supported by an infant death charity like Tommy's or SANDS? I would have thought orgs like that would have best practice for how to talk to subsequent children about their predeceased siblings.

There you go op, you got what you wanted, a bunch of people calling the way bereaved parents deal with a loss you can't comprehend 'ghoulish' and abusive.

Feel better now?

There is nothing wrong with those two things. The baby, while not there, is always part of the family. Having the baby in the photo is quite okay.

Mentioning that the other child would have been off to school as well is also quite normal. It doesn't mean they shared that with the kids, even if they posted it. Do you think bereaved parents forget?

The thing is that children who are deceased retain their place in the family, even if they aren't there. Yes, there are unhealthy ways to handle it, but these two things are not it.

Many bereaved families do things like light a candle for the lost person at celebrations, hang a stocking with their name at Christmas, have a bauble in their tree with the person's name. All normal and widely done.

Hopefully you're never in a position to 'get it'.

Thank you all for your replies and heartfelt condolences to those who as parents have been through this.
Just to be clear, I'm not judging her at all. She has been through so much, and has been so incredibly strong. I haven't "shared her life on the internet", I've been very vague, changed some details, and her account is public anyway. She shares loads of videos and photos with captions every day. I could give you a million examples of things where the ds2 is very much in the shadow of ds1, but I'm not trying to judge her on this, I know why she's doing it (and I think it's very understandable) but I worry that in her grief/trauma state she cannot see this, and might be very regretful down the line. This isn't just forming sibling bonds, imagine reading posts when you are an adult and your mum has shared a photo of you and said it makes her incredibly sad that she's looking for the face of your dead sibling in you and can't find it. I'm sure many bereaved parents have these feelings, but it's probably best to keep them for your bereavement/trauma counsellor, not attach them to you publicly where you can see it in the future. As an outsider, I would really worry about the trauma this is going to inflict upon the ds2. The family did have contact with a bereavement charity and counsellors related to the ds1's condition.

Absolutely not what I wanted, I was looking for people with experience of loss of a sibling. A parent obviously is going to have a very different experience. Nothing about my friend's behaviour is "ghoulish", she's understandably desperate to hang on to the life of her ds1.