Being born after the death of a sibling - do you have a connection with them?

[goodovationsonly]

This is obviously a hugely emotive topic for those in this position, so please step away if it's going to upset you. I'd genuinely be interested to hear others' perspectives on this, and if I should ever speak to my friend about it.
I had a colleague and we are still in touch via social media. Her first child was diagnosed antenatally as having an incompatible with life syndrome, and they decided to continue with the pregnancy. Their ds was born and after a fairly short time they brought him home on palliative care. She knew he was going to die fairly soon so TTC and got pregnant when he was 2 months old. Her ds was adorable and she shared lots of detail to document it. Life was difficult, his health was extremely fragile and he needed to be resuscitated quite a lot, friend's life was very restricted as she couldn't expose him to any infection etc. Sadly he died a week before baby 2 was born, but lived much longer than anyone imagined.
From the second baby was born every single post was in relation and/or a comparison to child 1. The parents were obviously in the throes of grief, but at times I wondered if this child would look back on these posts and feel bad that there was nothing solely about them. All hashtags were #jonnyslittlebro (not real name).
Child is now 3 and they still very heavily document life, so I see very regular updates. Child 1 is included in everything, so let's say it's a milestone for child 2, such as a birthday or potty training, a present will also be bought for child 1. Any time they go out for a walk, they will see signs of child 1, whether it be a rainbow/plant/feather. Child 2 kisses a picture of child 1 goodnight before bed every night and talks about "my brother". Every christmas there is a stocking for child 1, and child 2 is now responsible for choosing presents for it. I'm keeping it very brief here, but child 1 is still very much incorporated into their lives, and the parents very much love that child 2 talks about his brother voluntarily and includes him (which has obviously been heavily encouraged by them) in daily life. It's all fine as child is still very young, but it made me worry that child will feel under pressure to do this as he gets older. Three years on the parents are still very much grieving for child 1 (totally expected) but it seems quite unhealthy to me how much child 2 is living in child 1's shadow, and is expected to stay there.

I remembered a thread years ago where a poster said she took her young dc to visit her mum's grave very regularly, and that they had a close relationship. (DGM died before dc was born). A poster replied "sorry to say this but they don't have a relationship, she's dead and they never met" and the poster was really upset by this. To her, there was a bond/relationship between them that she had facilitated and it was important to her that she encouraged this. So it was for her benefit really.

I'm at the stage now where I'm wondering if I should very gently try to speak to friend about this? I don't want to hurt her of course, she's still having grief counselling but I worry she still cannot see her ds2 as a person in his own right and this will affect him.

If you were the child born after a sibling death, how has it impacted you?

The why not frame it as a general question rather than going into details that aren't yours to share?

What did you think inviting people to judge the way these bereaved parents are dealing with their grief would achieve?

I have been very general. I made it very clear in the first line this was a very emotive issue and to step away if you needed to. I'm not "inviting anyone to judge", my OP is asking those who were born after the death of the sibling if they have a connection with them, and how it impacted them.
ETA: This thread is not about the parents, it's about the subsequent siblings and their feelings.

She doesn't have to try to hang on to her lost child. She'll never forget and it will always be with her. It's not hard to hold on to a lost child because they are part of you.

Hopefully you are also never in a position to understand it.

You could have asked that question without giving all the details about your 'friend'. You totally invited judgement.

This must be very hard to watch playing out on social media, it does sound very damaging to their child that his deceased brother is so central to their family, that he can be seen as his brother, the one who was lucky to survive, rather than a person in his own right. I think it is abusive, and while of course the parents are grieving, they need to centre their living child. Making up a stocking is something I could see myself doing, and donating it to one of the 'shoebix for Christmas' charities, but I don't think it should be the sibling who has to pick, and I don't think there shoukd be two hung up together on the mantlepiece.

I know that pps have said it's not your place to comment, but I think somebody should, and maybe her family are too close, or fear that she'll cut them off. She may well cut you off, but you'll know you tried to do something for that poor little boy.

The stocking hanging up is entirely normal and many, many families do that for a lost family member.

For all we know the mother posts this stuff on social media as an outlet and her kid doesn't see much of it.

Then why share all the details?

They aren't your details to share.

All of the information about when they were trying for a baby etc why was that needed?

You are absolutely inviting judgement on this family.

I think the background is very important for context. Baby is born one week after very ill sibling dies, parents had no time to grieve. There are lots of extra layers of grief here that I think have to be accounted for. I suppose in theory any thread is an invitation to judgement but that was not my intention at all.

I think some pps are being very critical of the OP in asking the question - it is a very worrying thing to watch play out on social media.

Those who have sadly been in the position of having a deceased sibling have said how difficult it was for them, but these answers are being ignored by pps criticising her for questioning anything a bereaved parent does.

Of course it was. If you wanted to ask if someone had lost a sibling and how that impacted them, you could have asked just that as a general question and got good answers. The context of your question is unnecessary and judging a particular bereaved parent, which is actually quite disgusting.

You're not inviting people to judge you though, you're inviting people to judge someone grieving their child. People who would recognise themselves from this thread.

This is, quite literally, none of your business, there will be people around them who actually care about them who are better placed to advise them if they need.

The things she is criticising are actually so common as to be pretty normal. I tried a bereaved parent group but I'm not into all the candle lightings, walks, vigils, etc. For me, it is over the top (not for others, just me). I find I am actually the exception in this so that my quieter way of grieving is less normal. But it is fine.

Handling bereaved siblings is a difficult balancing act that it is impossible to get right all the time because we don't read their minds.

Chances are good that at least one person on this thread will one day lose a child and think back to what they have written and realise how wrong they were.

It sounds like they need further counselling!
I haven't had this myself, but my best friend did along with a cousin.

My friend's parents lost their 1st born, a son. They then had another son, then my friend then 2 more children. The eldest, living brother was spoilt rotten and could do no wrong. The disparity between the way he was treated was so obvious, even to outsiders. I don't recall the dead brother ever being mentioned though.

My cousin's parents lost a 1yr old boy before she was born. My cousin wasn't allowed to play, get dirty or do anything that might risk an injury or a fall. They would put her in a pretty, frilly dress and go to the park- where my brother and I were playing on swings/slides etc. My cousin had to sit on the seat with her mum and wasn't allowed to play! She was always compared to the dead sibling and had a dreadful childhood.I was unaware at the time, because I'm 4 yrs younger than her. She too was made to look at photos of the sibling. Even as an adult, her mum would say things like 'Well, David would have done that or David would have have a better job that you!'

My cousin had many, many years of counselling and still hasn't found a resolution.

The stocking thing does not illustrate what I think might be harming the ds2, that sounds like a very typical thing bereaved families do, whether it's for a child or adult. My friend is a very conscientious mum, and one that would gently advise other mums (in a nice way) if she thought they were doing something that would have a negative effect on a child, eg the cry it out method. She really has her dc's interests at heart at all times, and I think it would really upset her to think that some of the things she says/does (on social media, for all to see) could affect her ds2 down the line.

Then she can delete it, delete the account, or change the settings to private.

I hope your 'friend' finds this so she can see what kind of 'friend' you are and take appropriate action.

Sorry nothing I have posted is in any way uncommon I imagine. I'm not going to go into specifics, but some posters with experience of sibling death have mentioned things that friend does on a daily basis, and I believe over time when ds2 is aware might be very detrimental.

@farmlife2 the internet is forever. Strangers know her ds2, they approach him and tell him how much he looks like ds1 (he really doesn't) and that he's looking down on him. He's too young now to take this in, but constantly being put in the shadow of your older brother who you didn't know must be very difficult.

Again, the thread is not for parents of children who have passed away. Nor have I given specific details in order to invite judgement. I don't know how I would react in the same circumstances. I'm not listing things that bereaved parents do in order to manage/cope/survive and sneering at them. Do what you need to do to get by every day. This is not about them, it's about the sibling, who will have a very different experience, especially if the child died before they were born.

I think I'd feel really uncomfortable seeing this play out too OP. I think you're right to be worried about the little boy but also agree you're probably not the best person to speak to your friend about it.

My mum had stillborn twins, followed by my brother and then me. We have older siblings too. They weren't talked about in any depth and we didn't have any pictures of them. I don't think it had any impact on me personally but I would say that my sister who was a toddler when they died and my brother who was born after the twins were definitely my mum's "favourite" children, especially my sister. I imagine because they were a comfort to her and/or the loss of her babies made her appreciate them more.

That's your interpretation. People always comment on how much someone looks like their siblings and you don't have to have a deceased sibling to experience that or be in their shadow. Saying he's looking down on him could be sweet and that's a very common sentiment with any loss of any person.

Maybe if you're a bereaved parent with another child one day you can do it 'right'?

No, you're just sneering at your friend with faux concern. It's like people who post for prayers for someone as a form of gossip.

Siblings always have very different experiences. I think it was hard for my sibling to follow in my wake because I was a very high achiever and they followed as 'farmlife2's sister'.

Then why give details at all on a situation that isn't yours?

You've listed a whole bunch of things they do, why do that unless you want people to judge them?

You haven't even had the decency to take the thread down when people have jumped on calling your 'friend' ghoulish and macabre and abusive.

Why not just ask for experiences of those who have had a sibling die rather than broadcast another families pain on here?

The more you go on, the more arrogant you sound, as though you care more about their child than they do.

I appreciate this is a very sensitive and emotive issue, but you can't go just screwing up subsequent offspring (as testified by several PPs) with impunity. Like many, many things adults experience, it's not appropriate to involve children in this way. A toddler or young child should not be used as an active part of the grieving process to this extent - a different outlet and alternative (professional, by the sounds of it) support needs to be found.

Perfectly said.

But there's literally nothing op can do, she's not involved at all.

She's just come onto a support site, where they may very well be, broadcast all their details and asked people to have a little gossip and judge them.

Who's that helping?