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Original poster

Kyle Clifford - does it make you think the death penalty in some cases might be right?

510 replies

mids2019 · 07/03/2025 05:25

Read about Kyle Clifford's crimes and although for most of my life objected to the death penalty actually found it difficult to find reasons in this case not to have it. I really just couldn't think of justification for keeping the guy alive as there. Is no hope of redemption, reformation or education leading to a man being able to renenter scoiety. We would be in a position of keeping someone alive for pets face it the ideological reasons we don't believe it is rig h for the state to forcibly take a life.

Maybe my mind might change but reading about that blokes crimes I think sometimes you do forfeit the right to life.

OP posts:
LBFseBrom · 07/03/2025 07:49

I don't recognise his name (and am not going to look him up), but presume he is a particularly vicious murderer.

Like you, I am against the death penalty and it is not a deterrent, there are still many murders in countries that still have it.

However being anti capital punishment means that alongside those convicted murderers for whom we may have some sympathy, there are those we would lose no sleep about. That's a fact I'm afraid. I am still glad it was abolished here. It does nobody any good, least of all those who have to perform the executions.

Wibblywobblybobbly · 07/03/2025 07:49

For me it's not just about people potentially being rehabilitated, it's that it would be vastly hypocritical to say that killing people is wrong and then kill people for killing people.

SickInBedOnTwoChairs · 07/03/2025 07:50

I would prefer to live in a society with the death penalty.

A lot of criminals in jail see it as an upgrade to their normal lives as they don't function well in society. If they thought they could end up strapped to a board with a blue drip going in, it might make them consider their plans at a much earlier stage and this alone would make this country safer to live in.

RingoJuice · 07/03/2025 07:51

Absolutely should just be put before a firing squad and forgotten about. There is no question he did it, you can’t say ‘oh they’ve made mistakes before’ when it’s so fucking apparent that he did what people say he did.

These vile creatures will never feel sorry over what they’ve done nor will the guilt ever eat away at them.

They’ll live comfortably in jail and get a cozy second life, settle into the prison routine and get love letters from the outside crazies. Mercy is only for the guilty …

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 07/03/2025 07:52

OrsolaRosso · 07/03/2025 07:47

Totally disagree with this. Surely this just gives them an easy out?
Some people deserve to be punished for the rest of their lives.

Show quote history

I fully agree with you. I am completely in favour of people being in prison for every single day of the rest of their lives if they have murdered someone but fully oppose the death penalty.

The fact this man tried to take the easy way out, failed and is now paralyzed from the chest down and in prison for the rest of his days is in a small way somewhat satisfying.

LuckySantangelo35 · 07/03/2025 07:53

There’s no doubt he did it, he will never be released, prisons are overcrowded, it would cost thousands if not millions to keep him alive into old age.

what is the point of keeping him alive? Genuinely interested in reasoning as to why as I can’t really see it

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 07/03/2025 07:55

@Wibblywobblybobbly "it's that it would be vastly hypocritical to say that killing people is wrong and then kill people for killing people."

This.

FionnulaTheCooler · 07/03/2025 07:59

SickInBedOnTwoChairs · 07/03/2025 07:50

I would prefer to live in a society with the death penalty.

A lot of criminals in jail see it as an upgrade to their normal lives as they don't function well in society. If they thought they could end up strapped to a board with a blue drip going in, it might make them consider their plans at a much earlier stage and this alone would make this country safer to live in.

The thing with criminals is that a lot of them don't have the brain power to think their plans through to a logical conclusion so I doubt it would make much difference.

CandidHedgehog · 07/03/2025 08:00

RogersOrganismicProcess · 07/03/2025 05:55

I do not think the death penalty is right, but nor do I think that prison should be as easy as it is.

Leisure time should be an absolute bare minimum and only given when earned. I also think that prisons should be more self sufficient, and prisoners work the land to provide food, learn joining etc. to build prison furniture. Or provide resources at lower costs to local areas.

Those who prove to be trustworthy can raise to roles where they are trusted with tools to do certain tasks. Those who step out of line, work with their hands. Prisoners wouldn’t get a wage, as their work would be paying for their keep, rehabilitation, and costs associated with their trial, probation hearings etc.

Basically, other than building security and staffing, the prisoners should be doing the grafting and funding, and if they don’t knuckle down and graft they don’t get.

Entitled grandiosity needs something to put it into perspective. The above might just do that.

  1. Most older prisons are in urban areas. Having prisoners ‘work the land’ would cost a fortune - either building new prisons in rural areas and staffing them (would likely need at least overnight accommodation for staff as commutes would be difficult) or buying and tearing down billions of pounds worth of housing stock. Bussing prisoners to remote fields would again be very expensive (security en route, security at the farm) - far more than the cost of buying the same food, plus the escape risk would be high.
  2. Prisoners currently do have education / work in prison (and they don’t get minimum wage, just a small amount in the kitty). And yes, the more trusted work with tools (for example working in the kitchen with the knives)..

So that’s one completely impractical suggestion (ruling out massive tax rises / significant cuts to other budgets) and one suggestion the prisons should do something they do already.

BooToYouHalloween · 07/03/2025 08:02

Yes, I think it’s appropriate for cases like this, Southport killer etc

RingoJuice · 07/03/2025 08:03

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 07/03/2025 07:55

@Wibblywobblybobbly "it's that it would be vastly hypocritical to say that killing people is wrong and then kill people for killing people."

This.

People say this and then ask to fund a war in Ukraine in the next breath

Winterwonders24 · 07/03/2025 08:04

Chocolatefreak · 07/03/2025 05:34

No. I never think there's justifiable use of the death penalty. So many cases where they've been wrong. The UK and US prison system is completely fucked. People need to be rehabilitated much more - and in cases like Kyle Clifford locked up for life.

Saying we need the death penalty sounds like Trump.

Why bring Trump into thus? Argue the case: abusive bastard decided woman he abused shouldn't say no to him, raped and killed her,and her closest female relatives. Facts not in doubt. So actually, in this case, and the tiny few sherd it us beyond doubt, then yes,I think it's reasonable to use the depth penalty

RingoJuice · 07/03/2025 08:06

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 07/03/2025 07:55

@Wibblywobblybobbly "it's that it would be vastly hypocritical to say that killing people is wrong and then kill people for killing people."

This.

The state has always had the authority over this, which is why they can send your sons to defend Britain’s interests. (Where they will be forced to kill people … )

Dodeedoo · 07/03/2025 08:07

The tax payers will be paying fortune for that scumbags bed and board in prison, but the death penalty seems like an easy way out for him. Maybe torture would be better!

OneFineDay13 · 07/03/2025 08:08

Yes the death penalty should be re introduced. What's the point of keeping these cretins alive in a warm cosy jail with meals on tap? Cost to tax payer is incredible

socks1107 · 07/03/2025 08:08

I think it's the easy way out. I'd rather prison for them was much harder and they are never ever released.
What that 'man' did was appalling and things like leisure, visitors etc should be minimal and should he ever see freedom again

CandidHedgehog · 07/03/2025 08:08

SickInBedOnTwoChairs · 07/03/2025 06:49

I agree.

In cases like this where they is zero doubt that this man committed this crime, the death penalty should be in force because having it as a deterrent might save the lives of future victims like these three women who, after all, have been tortured and then murdered simply...simply because this wankstain was angry at being dumped.

By having no 'ultimate deterrent', in the future, crimes will be committed when they may not have been and those victims/people are more important to me at least, than the lives of lowlifes like this man.

To me, it is this simple. This man is totally dispensable in a right thinking society and would save the country hundreds of thousands of pounds keeping him warm, fed and occupied.

There was zero doubt Timothy Evans murdered his wife and baby daughter when he was executed - the evidence against him was really strong and when a woman is killed, it usually is the husband / boyfriend. Also, his downstairs neighbour gave evidence against him and the best defence Mr. Evans could come up with was that said neighbour was the killer for some unknown reason. Completely ridiculous and obviously a lie.

Except the downstairs neighbour turned out to be a serial killer (John Christie), who was arrested for multiple very similar murders of women and confessed to murdering Beryl Evans. Bit late for Mr. Evans unfortunately as he’d been hung several years earlier.

RingoJuice · 07/03/2025 08:09

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 07/03/2025 07:52

I fully agree with you. I am completely in favour of people being in prison for every single day of the rest of their lives if they have murdered someone but fully oppose the death penalty.

The fact this man tried to take the easy way out, failed and is now paralyzed from the chest down and in prison for the rest of his days is in a small way somewhat satisfying.

Show quote history

They live very comfortably in prison. Rose West has a very nice life in prison, shame she sexually tortured and killed so many women (including her own daughter!)

www.thesun.co.uk/news/16449431/murderer-rose-west-prison-life/amp/

saltandvinegarchipsticks · 07/03/2025 08:10

Beeloux · 07/03/2025 07:40

Yes I think we should have it but only for crimes where there is 100% solid evidence that the crime was committed. Cases like Lucy Letby’s where there is flaws, it would be to risky to consider the death penalty.

The problem with this is that to obtain a conviction in our criminal courts the standard of proof required is “beyond all reasonable doubt”, we don’t have two separate categories of 100% guilty and probably guilty. If convicted, it’s on the basis of 100% guilty. So inevitably people would be put to death when the jury got it wrong.

i don’t support the death penalty but I have to admit there’s the odd time I do wish people dead for what they’ve done, in the most heinous cases.

ChickenLittlesCat · 07/03/2025 08:11

mids2019 · 07/03/2025 05:25

Read about Kyle Clifford's crimes and although for most of my life objected to the death penalty actually found it difficult to find reasons in this case not to have it. I really just couldn't think of justification for keeping the guy alive as there. Is no hope of redemption, reformation or education leading to a man being able to renenter scoiety. We would be in a position of keeping someone alive for pets face it the ideological reasons we don't believe it is rig h for the state to forcibly take a life.

Maybe my mind might change but reading about that blokes crimes I think sometimes you do forfeit the right to life.

I have mixed feelings about the death penalty.
However, I personally would find living living in prison for the rest of my life a far worse prospect that death. So there is that. From a punitive point of view, I think it's a better punishment. I agree you're not going to make him better though. I completely support life tariffs meaning "life" though

Maitri108 · 07/03/2025 08:12

mids2019 · 07/03/2025 06:13

Looking at prison as punitive for those who have no chance of release would surely be viewed as long term psychological torture and is that any way more liberal than the death penalty (under certain circumstances?).

We're back to medieval times where we murder people and put them on the rack to punish them.

The world is going backwards.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 07/03/2025 08:12

RingoJuice · 07/03/2025 08:03

People say this and then ask to fund a war in Ukraine in the next breath

Show quote history

I didn't realise you were only allowed one stance on everything. So the people clamouring to bring back capital punishment must also in favour of being allowed to smack their misbehaving children then?

hattie43 · 07/03/2025 08:13

If we had chain gangs and his existence was guaranteed miserable then fine lock him up for life , but we all know prison isn't like that . Fed , exercise , gaming , none of the usual pressures of paying bills, putting food on the table .
When we are talking of reducing disability benefits I know where I'd rather have my taxes go .

SunnieShine · 07/03/2025 08:13

Yes, definately. The money spend on them would be better spent elsewhere.

Rockyroader · 07/03/2025 08:14

I don’t think it should be introduced as a deterrent or punishment but when there is no doubt of the guilt as a cost-saving exercise. Although prison might be more cruel, the taxpayer could surely see the benefit from not having their cash helping to fund keeping these people alive?