Anyone listened to this interesting diary of a ceo podcast, about how daycare is harming children ?

[GeorgiesCat]

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Just wondered your thoughts, I think what she's saying is very unpopular but also very true

Well, partly because I have a lot of indirect experience of the early years sector - in a previous role I was responsible for a major early years project. But mainly based on my son's personal review of it - he loved the woman who showed him around.

But then he wouldn't love a hectic house getting him there and back every day. Funnily enough my mum friends all went for the posh nursery one neighbourhood over, which I didn't rate as anything special for the extra £25/day, and which generates just as many complaints.

My son is very well-suited to nursery in part because he LOVES routine, and the one I chose has a free access garden for under 2s - they can spend all day outside if they want, no waiting for their turn.

I don’t think there’s is a massive difference between childminders and nurseries to be honest, nurseries are bigger of course, but the rooms themselves don’t have as many children and there are more staff members.

My eldest went to nursery too early in my opinion and the summary of research below backs up my hunch. It also says here that most US childcare isn’t of high quality and I assume similar is true in the UK given a very well publicised lack of resources and the fact that everyone’s on minimum wage. It also says that most parents rate their own childcare as the exception since they happened to find a great provider! It’s a real blind spot for parents in thinking their own provider is somehow better than everyone else’s.

I think we’re right to debate this in a shame-free way. I don’t feel a bit guilty myself. You can’t optimise everything in life and I had to work because I like to feed and clothe my kids! This should absolutely be up for public debate. I happen to think the system is not working and that the problem lies with greed (not from parents I should add), as well as the lack of value society gives to carers because when you look after tiny kids you’re not part of the capitalist machine, and the inflexible working patterns of men.

criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

@pointythings

Ah, I always recommend local reliable childminders who don't have their own school age children. Most school nursery staff know the best local childminders because they see them daily when the childminder drops off the child for nursery or school.

I would never recommend picking a childminder at random. When I choose my own DC's CM, I had their names on her waiting list before they born.

I agree.
Steven Bartlett has been criticised by various experts for spreading health misinformation through his podcast. He has on whoever he currently, in his I’m so cool arrogance, thinks is right about a subject and gives them carte blanche to hold forth with no fact checking or challenge. I wouldn’t trust him to tell me the time correctly.
He is the poster boy for the “lived experience” and “my truth” gang.
Bleugh.
As someone who has cancer myself I look forward to him disdaining chemotherapy in favour of a “keto diet” as recommended on Diary of a CEO if/ when he gets a cancer diagnosis. We will see if he puts his money where his mouth is then, or is he only willing to play fast and loose with listeners lives?

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves , I'm sorry I wound you up. That wasn't my intention, and i apologise. I know this topic gets very heated as its about our children, so very close to the heart. And i know we are all doing the best we can with everything regarding our kids, and it wasn't my intention to try to make you feel bad. I can only go by my experiences and i agreed with most things in this podcast. I completely accept you don't and your dd has grown up into a very well balanced young lady. All credit due to you for that, we all know raising kids is tricky but you've obviously found what works best for you and your family and that's all that matters.
What i took from the podcast mainly is the fact there needs to be more discussion on the realities of having kids, in general. And the issue of childcare and the cost associated are massive. Scandinavian countries seem so much better at this than we are, but i think they are better at a lot of things. The USA is bloody awful at it and probably going to get worse in the next 4 years...
Anyway, i don't want to ramble too much, i just hope you can accept my apology. I feel as mums we are all in this together, the good and the bad, and if we agree to disagree and still keep the discussion going, things might get better for our kids going forward.

@ssd, thank you for this. I certainly accept the apology and I appreciate it.

Inevitably, we will all bring different experiences and insights to this topic, but like you say, most of us want the best for our children even if we have somewhat different ideas about what "best" might look like. No two families are the same.

As a society, I think we absolutely need to have more discussion around having children, what constitutes good parenting, how to raise happy, healthy kids etc. You and I might differ with regard to questions around childcare etc, but I suspect that there would be some common ground with regard to many other aspects. The problem is that there are so many layers of guilt and judgement piled on people (usually women) for so many things - on SAHPs for not being economically active, on WOHPs for putting their kids in childcare etc. And of course, we all bring our own baggage to the conversation. This often makes it hard to have a meaningful debate because there is so much emotion wrapped up in the subject.

Having witnessed my mum's struggles when I was growing up, I really wanted to show my dd a different model of how to be a loving, engaged and hands-on parent without giving up my own aspirations. I feel that I have been able to do that, and that I've given her a model that she can replicate with her own family if and when the time comes. She may choose to do things differently, and that's fine. I really want dd, and every young woman, to be able to make choices that aren't dictated by guilt and societal expectations.

Of course, I want the very best for children too, but I don't think that women staying at home is necessarily the best way of achieving that. I was fortunate when dd was little that I could work incredibly flexibly and that I had a hands-on DH that could work very flexibly as well. I want that for everyone. In my working life, I have endeavoured to change the culture in the workplace to make it easier for people to combine the different aspects of their lives. As a society, I want us to ensure that we do understand the research and that we are investing in high quality childcare provision for those that need it. And I want us to teach young women that they should expect any future partners to step up and do their fair share of the load.

On this particular podcast, we can agree to disagree. However, I think we can agree on the wider point of wanting the very best for the next generation, whatever we think that looks like.

Yes, absolutely agree @MrsBennetsPoorNerves.
I have boys, so maybe the future partners for girls like yours. Both boys have a great role model in dh, who was always hands on and still does plenty around the house. Both boys very independent, moved away early from home to progress in their respective careers, both with first class masters degrees, both very politically and socially aware.

Sometimes I like to take credit for them, but i know the drive to succeed and keep striving comes from themselves. Its a harsh world out there, but our kids seem well able for it. Hopefully it's more of a level playing field now.

You see, that's great if you have such things as school nurseries. My area did not, and still doesn't. You have to go with whatever is available.