Anyone listened to this interesting diary of a ceo podcast, about how daycare is harming children ?

[GeorgiesCat]

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Just wondered your thoughts, I think what she's saying is very unpopular but also very true

Of course people who left babies in childcare for long days will absolutely slate this podcast. It goes against everything they tell themselves us true. But she has done the research to back up what she says. Even though its so unpalatable to certain parents.

It's just conservative propaganda to shame mothers. They want women to be dependent on their husbands and basically tied to the home. That's the purpose of this panic mongering. It's not new either. I remember in the 80s and 90s, how people cried "shame" over kids in nursery and daycare.

From what I hear, research has found the opposite. That kids in daycare/nursery do better in school, because nursery prepared them for the education system. It's also good to have the eyes of professionals on your child at an early stage. If they see anything concerning they can alert you right away.

She's done the research to back up what she says about ADHD being caused by childcare settings? Fascinating.

I haven't watched the podcast but in my opinion it is not in the best interests of the child to be in nursery full time. I appreciate that for some people, that is unavoidable but it doesn't change my opinion.

But there is other research that suggests that the children of WOHMs -especially girls - do better on many measures than the children of SAHPs. And of course, the economic wellbeing of the family unit is known to have a major impact on child development as well.

We can all find research to back up whatever point of view we might like to take.

FWIW, I have no vested interest in defending institutionalised daycare at all - we never needed to use nursery care when dd was little. We did have a nanny in the mornings during the preschool years, but DH and I were able to work flexibly to manage the rest of the childcare between us. However, many of dd's friends were in nursery care, and they are positively thriving. A few of them do struggle with their mental health, but that applies equally to those who had SAHPs at home throughout.

I simply don't agree that the current mental health crisis amongst young people has anything to do with working mothers or the use of nurseries, and I would prefer that we look beyond facile assumptions of this nature in order to get to the bottom of what is really fuelling the problems that some young people are experiencing.

I wonder how many men are being made to feel guilt and shame About this?

Women can’t win can they? Shamed for staying at home with kids and not Being economically active, shamed for going out to work and using Paid childcare.

Considering she calls childcare "outsourcing motherhood" (note, not "parenthood") I doubt she has high expectations of fathers.

I agree.

I have no issue with people being SAHPs if that's what they want to do and if their partner is willing to support it, but I don't understand the need that some people seem to have to justify their choices by laying all of society's problems at the feet of working mothers. It is so simplistic and so misguided.

My own mum was a SAHP because that's what she felt she needed to do, but it had a terrible impact on her own mental health, and that, in turn, had a significant impact on us as children.

Happy, loving and supportive parents generally produce happy and well-adjusted children. Whether they WOH or not.

I am assuming none of the comments which have reacted rather defensively have actually listened to the podcast. Yes, she is American and a lot of research comes from America, however she has also looked in to Sweden's childcare system and post maternity leave arrangements which also don't land favourably in terms of child development.

As she puts it there are a lot of 'uncomfortable truths' which if you are familiar with recent neuroscience research do make a lot of sense. The heading and some of the out-takes take things out of context. 'Day care causes ADHD' - if you listen she actually looks in to how childhood stress can cause ADHD and how the infant brain is not equipped to be subjected to long periods of stress.

I think there is are a lot of substance to the interview and if we are open minded enough there can be the realisation that maybe modern day society is not bringing up children in a healthy way - and this stems back to the industrial revolution. We obviously can't go back but maybe individually we can work out routes for our families where children aren't expected to be silent from 7pm - 7pm and left alone(as one example) . We are in a mental health crisis and it is coming from somewhere..

This comes from a mum of two young children who works 4 days a week and we were lucky to find an exceptional childminder for our childcare as there is no family support network as all over 2 hours away. I am always astounded by the comments of 'leave them with a babysitter' and 'they'll be alright for the afternoon' when it would mean leaving my babies distraught with a strangers.

I think having children we have to realise our lives will be very different and very hard for a good few years and stop thinking the world revolves around us once we bring other humans in to the world. Well worth a listen I say!

Full time away from family day care from a young age has been known to be less good than other options for decades

I suspect links to SEN is complete guff

Some days a week especially for toddlers was never shown at meta analysis level to be harmful and may have benefits

It's the extremes that are a problem - both ends

so what's your answer?

mine is: make sure that men take on their fair share of the burden of rearing children including taking a hit to their salary etc etc

and that we treat our elderly and the disabled shamefully but that is nothing to do with childcare

I thought it was interesting how she explained how oxytocin makes mums and dads react differently to babies. It makes so much sense.

I watched some of it and then decided that it wasn't worth the investment of my time to watch the rest.

No it isn't.

My child went to a full time child minder from 2y2m. The arrangement ensured a happy, fulfilled mum, and a happy engaged child who socialised with other children his own age and learned about different environments.

He spent 45 hours a week with a specific and much-trusted carer, and the other 123 hours per week with me. He is now a happy, confident, well balanced 6' teen with 10 good GCSEs and a plan to read engineering.

Your sweeping generalisations are ignorant and unhelpful, OP.

Maybe it would be good to watch it and think about the time you invest in your children @MrsBennetsPoorNerves ?

How many of those 123 hours was your 2 year old asleep for?

Noone can have a sensible conversation about this without addressing the massive economic elephant in the room - which is that for the majority of families, it is unsustainable to have children without two parents working. Without addressing this, its just another way of shaming mothers (like when someone asked me if i was worried that being separated from my daughter when she was taken to NICU might have altered her brain chemistry. Well yes, but she is alive and frankly that is more important).

It isn't just a case of moving to a cheaper area as is patronisingly suggested so many times - there are only so many cheap areas left and so many jobs in those places. I strongly believe that so many of society's issues are down to the poor quality, high cost of housing in this country. If housing were affordable on one salary, families would be able to choose whether to have one SAHP, or both parents work PT on alternate days, or still utilise childcare but have more days off as a family. But instead, most of us are reliant on vast amounts of childcare to pay eye-wateringly high rent or mortgages for houses in the parts of the country where our jobs are. The whole thing is madness. And that's before we even get onto the failure of the utility companies to provide us with affordable, clean water or power for our homes. Other countries can do this - why can't we?

can have a sensible conversation about this without addressing the massive economic elephant in the room - which is that for the majority of families, it is unsustainable to have children without two parents working.

This. This woman can guilt-trip as much as she likes, but what are parents actually supposed to do when they need two salaries in order to keep a roof over their heads? What is the solution?

Who is expecting children to be silent from 7 am to 7 pm?

Oh FFS! 😂

Comments like this just make you look like a complete idiot, and reflect far more on you than they do on me.

You have no idea how much time I invested in my now adult dd, and frankly, it's none of your business. What I can say is that, looking at the amazing young adult that my dd has become and at the quality of the relationship that I have with her, I would not choose to do anything differently.

Luckily, my dd is an extremely happy, healthy, confident and well adjusted young woman who is excelling in her chosen field and who has a very close and loving relationship with both of her parents, so your comments are like water off a duck's back to me. I literally have no raw nerves in this area that you can touch. However, I would ask that you just stop and think for a moment about how such a shitty comment might upset someone in different circumstances to my own.

The constant attempts to guilt trip women are not helpful to anyone. As the mother of a young woman, I hope for my dd's sake that society will have moved on a bit by the time she comes round to having kids of her own.

Do you know what also stresses children and newborns? Not having a warm, stable home and food on the table. Most people aren't putting very young children into daycare for the lols. It's a necessity not a choice.

@pointythings I was using this as just one example of how infants are expected to behave in modern day society and particularly in western society, and maybe you are in a different world to me but I am surround by social media, peers, historical and modern day baby care books which revolve around sleep training and making sure that babies do not inconvenience their care givers, usually done by implementing routines.

@bookworm14 I don't see the podcast as guilt-tripping at all really just someone sharing their research and information so parents and whoever else listens can take and do what they wish with the information. Some may completely disregard it and some may take on board. Me and my partner both work and when we are not at work our children are our priority as I am sure is the case of the majority of working parents! There are loads of economic factors that come in to play but how we react and respond to our children (which all comes in to the same conversation) is not driven by these factors.

Ooooh, but we are all just terrible mothers who ought to be less selfish and materialistic. Erica Komisar says on the podcast that she made huge sacrifices in order to spend more time with her children, including going without "second homes". Bless her.

I actually would love to work less and be with my young children more, but I'm not sure their superior attachment styles would matter as much if they were homeless and hungry.

This stuff is always presented without nuance. Totally agree that it's another stick to beat women (she lets men off the hook) with. We simply cannot win, so we should probably all just continue doing things as best as we can for our own families. And not listen to rage bait!

There's much we don't understand about ADHD, I don't think it's childcare "causing" it though. Whether it's innate in all those with a diagnosis we do not know, I have a hunch that adhd (and autism) are describing the "symptoms" rather than the underlying reason you have said symptoms so it's possible that early life experiences could be a contributing factor, we don't know

Do you think? I see it the other way. 'They' want women out working, making money and paying taxes. Unfortunately IMO this has in part led to house prices rising hugely as so many couples/families have had two incomes to rely on over the last 4 or 5 decades - and as a result women now have no choice but to go to work.

Research has found that from 3 onwards kids benefit from preschool and it prepares them for school. Before that it's unnecessary and they are best off with their primary carer.

Childcare varies hugely in suitability, a really good childminder in a family environment is going to be better for a baby than a large nursery with a high turn over of young, poorly qualified staff. I've worked in childcare settings that I wouldn't have sent my child to.