Anyone listened to this interesting diary of a ceo podcast, about how daycare is harming children ?

[GeorgiesCat]

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Just wondered your thoughts, I think what she's saying is very unpopular but also very true

I think its not ideal for very young babies (say under 9months) but it is often essential/The COL is through the roof now .Few people can manage on a single salary. Saying things like this which are unproven, just increases mothers anxiety. ADHD is still the subject of debate, No one reason is given .Food additives ,home enviroments even pollution have been cited . Lets have a break from bashing mums trying their best mmm?

I used to like his podcast but now it just feels like the guests are all there for clickbait and I CBA.

I haven’t watched the video but I recognise the name - I saw a previous interview where she talked about this. She basically ranked the options from best to worst as:

• mother
• another family member (eg father/grandparent)
• nannies
• childminders
• nurseries

basically her point was that higher ratios of kids to adults are worse (which I think everyone agrees), and she said family members over Nannies ideally because they have more of a natural long term interest in the child, but by no means would she have thought your setup to have been damaging. She’s a psychologist iirc so her interest in terms of outcomes is about attachment and your DC would obviously have been able to form a secure attachment with your childminder. It’s only problematic when you get nurseries with high ratios and high staff turnover (which studies were done on in Quebec) and more so if you have a particularly young and/or sensitive child.

It's easy to say that 3 years with a primary carer is best, but what about that primary carer herself? Work isn't just about money. It's about social interaction, validation, independence, self esteem. Ideally I would have liked to work 3 days a week, but there was no right to flexible working when mine were little. And I would have been a dreadful SAHM.

Mine went to a great nursery from 6 months old and had the same keyworker all the way through until they started school.
@Sorrell23 you made me laugh. I did attachment parenting before it was a thing. My take was always that the books might give you some ideas to try, but ultimately the babies hadn't read the books, so a rigid parent centred approach was a non starter.

I did "attachment parenting" without knowing it was a thing as well. It's essentially the way that I was parented.

I agree with you on the importance of considering the mother's mental health, both for her own sake but also from the point of view of the wellbeing of her children.

Personally, I think having a happy, healthy mum is far more important for children than having a mum who is ever present.

I do think this is true and I think many parents are in denial about childcare - particularly group nursery. I also know our economic situation does not enable mums to stay at home. So we need better policy,career breaks, parental leave etc…

I do think so. I also think that "women out working" has little, if anything, to do with the housing prices. For one thing, women have always worked outside the home. It's only the brief period after the second world war where women (not the upper class, but also middle class white women) were able to stay at home and the family could make do with one income. This still did not apply to the majority of families.

Secondly, the recently housing crisis has to do with three factors:

1. There are not enough new houses being build
2. Many houses have been bought up by investors to speculate with (even if they just sit empty)
3. Wages have not kept up with inflation

Since women have been in the work force for most of human history, you can't blame this on working women.

It's funny how nobody ever blames working men for high house prices.

It's all about financial necessity for the most part.

Or is this just another working mother bashing thread?

It's clearly just another working mother bashing thread.

It's a mother bashing thread. Poor quality childcare is bad for children. Not childcare per se.

That’s not the childcare we chose for our DT’s. It was excellent.

There is a difference between putting a 6wo newborn in childcare vs a 1 year old, who will already have a great attachment to you at that point.

Most mothers have to go back to work by necessity. I agree it's likely best for children to be with their primary care givers, but I truly don't believe it is damaging or affects attachment in children with otherwise loving parents at home.

I've got a 9mo DD and I feel incredibly guilty that I have to go back to work in 3 months. I'd give anything to stay home with her. But I have bills to pay. Women feel bad enough already without this sort of thing. I actually think my girl will thrive 2 days a week in childcare She's very social and I think children learn a lot from other children. She'll be with my mum the rest of the week, and I can drop in on her in between patient visits.

Only very privileged people can stay home and rely on their partner for an income.

I find it interesting the parallel people believe there is between doing well academically and being advanced in that sense, with actual emotional well-being and happiness in children/teens.

@pointythings I feel lucky I have been able to take that approach also but do have to block out a lot narrative!

@Ipresumecantrecall i also think this. I am not sure we know how ‘well adjusted’ any of us are until at least 30’s/40’s and from what I am seeing there’s lots of hidden issues which come out around now!

When was this? I ask not to sound adversarial but because I remember your name from years ago, probably twenty or more years ago, on childminder threads.

There are of course still nurseries and nurseries and childminders and childminders but still, things have changed a great deal in terms of quality childcare in the last two decades.

DD's ADHD was caught very early. Mostly because the dedicated, well-trained and engaged nursery owner had multiple conversations with me about it. I was in complete denial, mostly because DD seemed 'normal' to me. Spoiler alert, I also had (at that point) undiagnosed ADHD. Because it's GENETIC! I didn't go to daycare so mine wasn't caught.

I know how great the nursery was because my family member worked there and complained about how obsessed the owner was with quality care.

Daycare in the States from 6 weeks is a different kettle of fish.

I wonder how many of the people replying have actually listened to the podcast? I'm only half an hour in (listened while I was ironing) and it is extremely worrying to hear the cascade of consequences for children when parents are encouraged towards decisions that disturb healthy attachments.

I agree with her about the atomisation of wider families and how that represents a deep loss to most children.

Anyway, another two hours to go.

Totally relate to this. It's very easy within families where adhd is prevalent for parents to assume that the behaviours are "normal".

My own mum didn't ever get a formal diagnosis but I'm absolutely certain that she had adhd as well.

The trouble is - if adhd is seen as a consequence, can you trust the other supposed consequences?

I'm a childminder and I dispute absolutely that children are negatively affected by being with me.
Yes, they sometimes spend long days with me but TBH that helps in building a close loving relationship.
The cm kids are treated exactly the same as my own children and are cuddled just the same.
They love coming here and arrive full of smiles to start the day playing with their friends and having fun activities to do.
Equally, if anyone is feeling a bit under the weather then we have a quiet day of reading stories/ crafts/ pottering around- just like you would at home.
years ago many many mothers also needed to work; the difference being that most babies/ toddlers would be left with a neighbour/close friend for the day.
You know all those cute black and white photos of little kids playing out in a terraced street? That was the reality for many of my relatives basically being sent out all day with minimal supervision whilst mum and dad were at work
if you have a loving, secure childcare place with low ratios I can't see how it would be detrimental ( caveat being you need a half decent cm!)

Most of us probably don't need to listen to the podcast to know the likely damage consequences for children who do not form secure attachments to their primary caregivers. These are well documented and nothing new.

Nobody is disputing the importance of children forming secure attachments. What people are disputing is the suggestion that children who spend time in nurseries are necessarily prevented from forming secure attachments. There are so many other variables that may impact on this.

Yes, of course, lots of things are genetic that are triggered or exacerbated by the environment.

So, you're just deciding that it's wrong without listening to it? You can do that, seems a bit reactive though.

As I said further up the thread, I listened to enough of it to determine that it wasn't worth listening to the rest.