Anyone listened to this interesting diary of a ceo podcast, about how daycare is harming children ?

[GeorgiesCat]

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Just wondered your thoughts, I think what she's saying is very unpopular but also very true

You can’t compare the states and the UK in terms of, well, anything really. Especially not childcare.

She lost me at "I took time out and we made sacrifices to do so.... we did without second homes..."

I dug a little deeper into what she was saying, because I'm all too aware that you have to take any agenda that Steve Bartlett pushes with a pinch of salt.

The study she mentions about how mums and dads brains react differently to interacting with their baby does exist. However, what she decided not to divulge was that when a mother (or father) isn't in the picture the brain adapts and both areas of the brain start reacting. So men can adapt to take on the more emotional role, but if a mother is there they don't.

However, I don't 100% disagree with the concept that childcare can be damaging to very young children, however there is a bigger picture around how much they are in childcare, what their time at home is like, and what the childcare provision is like.

Also she's very right-wing and has ties to companies like PraderU which are known to push sexist agendas, including denying the gender pay gap exists and insinuating that women's rights aren't being regressed.

The 'well, we just made sacrifices so I could stay at home' makes me see red. The assumption that many of us go out to work to pay for luxuries us offensive. Unless you consider food, heating and housing 'luxuries' , of course.

Anyone using that trope isn't worth listening to. And I don't have 2 hours to waste on a known right winger with a regressive agenda. Find me similar from someone neutral and I'll give it a go.

Perfect post!

We can blame them too if you like. If they took on their share of housework and treated women with respect, the there would be far less divorces and we wouldn't need twice as many homes due to splitting households into two. I mean this is just a generalisation.

I’m quoting you but a few others have said along the same lines but I just want to flag this isn’t black or white…..it’s partly innate,70-80%ish heritability estimates from twin / adoption studies and the like…looking at my family, it’s hard not to argue it’s genetic but ”The aetiology of ADHD is very heterogeneous and there are several developmental pathways leading to the same outcome. A growing body of research links ADHD onset and severity to psychosocial and neurocognitive factors, such as the experience of stressful life events and memory processes. The exposure to stressful life events, and—more specifically—Childhood Trauma, has been shown to predict ADHD onset as well as persistence of the disorder into adulthood”. An alternative school of thought suggests that children can be misdiagnosed with ADHD when the cause is actually complex trauma. Whatever people think about childcare, early childhood experiences that lead to positive attachments with carer(s) ,parental or otherwise , are important. I’m sure most of us wouldn’t choose to put extremely young babies in childcare for long periods of time as happens in usa. Genetics and environmental influences will generally be difficult to untangle but in an ideal world all kids would be raised in healthy environments that lead to the best outcomes, whatever that looks like in terms of childcare .

I truly don't believe home based childcare with one or two consistent carers does any harm to babies or toddlers at all, even at 50-60 hours a week.

Some studies show that children aged under 3 who go into full time childcare have higher rates of cortisol/stress than those who remain with their main carer. It makes parents very defensive for obvious reasons but it’s no use ignoring it. We all make the best choices we can. Discussion is required if we want to come up with solutions to ameliorate these issues though.

Yes, men are clearly so worried about the deleterious effects of childcare settings on their children's development that they are choosing to be SAHPs in record numbers.

Please would you share the study - thanks

Do a search. It brings up several.

Some studies have indeed shown that full time childcare can raise cortisol levels in young children. Meanwhile, other studies have found no evidence of any damaging impact on the long term mental wellbeing of children who spend time in these settings, so the evidence is inconclusive.

The picture is also quite complex. For example, there are also studies that have shown a strong correlation between maternal life satisfaction and lower cortisol levels in children, so if mothers are unhappy staying at home, their kids won't necessarily benefit from the sacrifices that they are making.

It really isn't as simple as daycare = bad.

@Parker231 theres a recent ish meta analysis https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0885200622001429. I think the thing to remember that studies are not necessarily highlighting statistical increases for a child attending child care fullstop, they highlight that statistically increased levels are correlated with 1. Length of time in childcare ( eg. child attending full time versus part time or short days) 2, poorer quality of child care. Edited for clarity of last comment

Have found several but not UK based or recent. None mention the staff:children ratios. At DT’s nursery for the younger children it was 1:2 which is the same as they would get it I’d stayed at home.
DT’s are now in their mid 20’s with no negative effects from being in full time nursery from six months old.

Why is Steven Bartlett pivoting his previously well-respected podcast, to these ‘click bait’ interviewees.

He doesn’t ever challenge them either, just accepts it as though it’s a statement of fact.

Hasnt he had a couple of people claiming you can cure cancer with your diet?

Fraud interviews frauds. What a format.

Must admit when Steven bartlett talks about how him and his long term gf are planing a baby, I do tend to think why are you marrying her then ? Protecting his money I suppose
If I was her though I'd insist on marriage before ttc

But I do think the podcast has food for thought,we did a bit of controlled crying, amd I certainly think it's less than ideal, but sometimes needed, just like needing two income, but it worth thinking about what best for children and babies, like use a child minder if there's no family or friends available

Why aren't you that should read

I did supply work in a few different nurseries about 6 years ago, when i was between jobs. I probably worked in 4 or 5 different nurseries on a temporary basis, staying roughly 3 months in each. Things had changed since my childminding days, there's a lot more paperwork involved now, but thats what i meant about some staff finding other things to do instead of interacting with the kids. There was always a form to fill in or a risk assessment for a walk to the park. I wasn't involved in the paperwork, probably because i was temporary, so i was always with the kids, but i noticed i was the only one actually involved with them a lot of the time.

Which mirrors what a lot of people who have worked with children say. There is a discord, whether we like to admit it or not, between our own perceptions of what we do and what actually happens.

We checked staff turnover rates and ratios before we decided on a nursery although the one we wanted was so popular we had to get our name on the waiting list whilst I was pregnant - twins - two places - nightmare to get.

I'd love to learn more?

I felt Komisar has some valid points backed by research but completely let men off the hook and that annoyed me no end!

In that much shared ‘Critical Science’ review of childcare options, the writer said there’s a load of research finding there is absolutely no difference between mums and dads when it comes to caregiving. And there’s plenty of data available from single dads etc.

I feel kids today spend far too much time at nursery and my own kids certainly do. But the answer it to reform the system for both men and women. Not just putting all the burden into women as usual.

tuesdayschildish yes I agree, I think kids spending more time with dad's would be great, I get the breast feeding issues in the first say 9/12 months but that's covered by mat leave really, so would love to see more men taking time out of the work place to spend it with the kids

There is a different reality on here where it's much better for babies to be in nurseries than with mum or dad.

Read my others posts then