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Zelensky - feeling quite sad

691 replies

Bakewelltart1 · 01/03/2025 20:18

I know that there are several threads about him, but I’ve watched the interview again today.
I don’t know what’s made me feel more sad - how exhausted and disappointed he looked, the fact that English isn’t his first language and it must have been hard to speak, let alone speak whilst being verbally attacked, or the suit question.
When the war is over, I want to buy that man the best suit money can buy!
How can anyone kick someone when they are so down anyway.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
maudelovesharold · 01/03/2025 22:11

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 20:39

I don’t think that meeting was the time and place for Zelensky to start lecturing Trump and Vance. He called Vance, JD, which was very disrespectful. Trump ribbed him about his attire when he greeted him but it was a journalist who brought it up in the meeting. Zelinsky was there to sign the mineral agreement and he should have stuck to that and discussed other concerns privately. It was Trump and Vance who were ambushed

Yes, of course that’s what happened. Hmm

TriesNotToBeCynical · 01/03/2025 22:12

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 22:09

But this will also be Russia’s position. Wearing down Ukraine. Both have financial support and weapons being provided by third parties. America have now halted their contributions. Can Europe, or should i say those in Europe currently contributing, really be able to match what Russia is getting from other very powerful and rich countries now America has stepped back? I suspect not.

Unless Trump is actually financing Russia, there are no rich countries backing them. China is trading with them, but on their own terms.

Reugny · 01/03/2025 22:12

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 22:09

But this will also be Russia’s position. Wearing down Ukraine. Both have financial support and weapons being provided by third parties. America have now halted their contributions. Can Europe, or should i say those in Europe currently contributing, really be able to match what Russia is getting from other very powerful and rich countries now America has stepped back? I suspect not.

Russia's allies include North Korea, Iran and some African countries. Interesting stories about how that's going.🤔

Blinkingbonkers · 01/03/2025 22:12

Whoever would have believed we’d have a US administration supporting Russia waging war on other Countries…. I’m starting to wonder if the Americans would vote in Kanye, prob couldn’t make them look that much worse🤷🏼‍♀️.

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:13

Llttledrummergirl · 01/03/2025 21:56

While most of this is utter rubbish, this I understand:

In politics, weakness is never forgiven.

A bully is weak.
A person who treats an equal with contempt is weak.
A liar is weak
Someone in need of constant praise and affirmation is weak.
A person who belittles another is weak.
A leader who makes a mockery of diplomatic process is weak.
A leader who offers support and friendship, but at a cost is weak.
A leader who withdraws support from an invaded country, giving it to their enemy is weak.

Trump came out of this weak and without honour. He won't be trusted, and nor will America while he is president and surrounded with sycophants.

Zelensky looks stronger and more statesmanlike. He was calm under pressure and extreme provocation. It's not Zelensky on the back foot.

Trump has done his country a disservice, he wants isolationism, that's what he's going to get. Unless he really is in Putins pocket, which means the whole thing with Zelensky was a set up, and America is a vassal state.

Let’s dissect this, shall we?

A bully is weak? No, my friend. A bully with power is feared. And in politics, fear is often more valuable than love. A person who treats an equal with contempt is weak? The mistake here is assuming Zelensky was ever an equal in that room.

Power isn't about courtesy it’s about leverage. And in that moment, Trump had it. As for the rest of this moral sermon about liars, praise-seekers, and sycophants well, welcome to politics. If these were disqualifying traits, Washington would be a ghost town.

Now, let’s address the crux of their argument. Did Trump look “weak”? No. He looked transactional. He played to his base, sent a message to Moscow, and reminded the world that under him, nothing is free. Isolationist? Perhaps. But weakness isn’t refusing to hand out blank checks it’s being so dependent on them that you have to beg.

Zelensky, admirable as his resolve may be, left that room knowing one thing: his fight just got harder. Maybe he can turn that to his advantage, rally support elsewhere. But let’s not kid ourselves. Strength in politics isn’t about moral victories it’s about who dictates the terms.

And Trump? He dictated the terms. That’s not weakness. That’s the game.

TheOliveFinch · 01/03/2025 22:13

weirdoboelady · 01/03/2025 22:08

I can't find this on change.org Using their (possibly rubbish) search facility the latest petition with Trump in its name is 2021, which seems implausible Can you provide a linky?

Here is one , there are a few on there
https://www.change.org/p/cancel-the-invitation-to-donald-trump-to-a-state-visit-to-the-uk?source_location=search

Reugny · 01/03/2025 22:15

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 21:56

I don’t think there will. Because I’ll bet that this time next week, Zelenskyy and Trump will have had a private phone conversation, and all will be well again, with another damage limitation televised talk, and lots of smiles and back slapping.

Let us hope.

It's not in the rest of NATO's interests to hand over Ukraine to Russia, otherwise it will trigger WWIII.

I think some posters need to check whose aligned with whom and who doesn't care.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 01/03/2025 22:15

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 21:53

Well don’t be

You must support the Trump/Russia alliance then?
A "failure" to show respect by dressing in a business suit or calling someone by their actual name shouldn't derail negotiations. People's lives are on the line fgs. The fact that it does hasn't shown Zelensky's failure at all. It is becoming more and more clear that Trump had an agenda and it wasn't to secure peace.

setmestraightplease · 01/03/2025 22:15

@Rosesducks Power isn’t about what’s fair it’s about who controls the narrative, and in that Oval Office showdown, both men were playing for different stakes. Zelensky walked in needing unwavering U.S. support, hoping to reaffirm his country’s moral high ground. Trump, on the other hand, wanted dominance an undisputed claim to being the man who dictates the terms of global order. And let’s be clear, Trump relishes confrontation because in his mind, power is a transaction, not a principle.
Trump didn't just dismiss Zelensky; he humiliated him. Telling him he "doesn’t have the cards" wasn’t just bravado it was a calculated move to strip Ukraine of any leverage. By treating Zelensky as a desperate supplicant rather than a wartime leader, Trump sent a clear message: Ukraine’s survival is a U.S. decision, not a Ukrainian one. And when he coldly stated Zelensky could "come back when he is ready for peace," he wasn’t just shutting the door—he was setting the terms. In one stroke, he positioned himself as the sole arbiter of Ukraine’s fate while making it clear that further support would come with strings attached.
That’s the kind of move a Machiavellian strategist can admire. It’s brutal, but effective. Trump is testing the waters for a potential second term, and he wants the world to know that American policy under him will be transactional—no blank checks, no sentimentality, only deals that serve his interests. Putin couldn't have asked for a better soundbite.
Zelensky, to his credit, stood his ground. But defiance without leverage is just performance. His presence in the Oval Office was meant to project strength, yet Trump turned it into an interrogation. The Ukrainian leader now finds himself in a precarious position: he must maintain international support while dealing with a White House that could turn against him. And make no mistake his visible exhaustion, his struggle to hold the room, all played into Trump’s hands.
Nothing weakens an ally more than making them appear desperate.
That said, Zelensky may have unintentionally played the long game. His fiery defiance has only solidified domestic support in Ukraine. The perception of being “bullied” by Trump could also rally European allies and parts of the U.S. establishment against Trump's isolationist instincts. If he leverages this moment correctly, he can turn Trump’s dismissal into a rallying cry for continued Western aid. The question is will that be enough?
From a pure power perspective, Trump walked away with the advantage. He didn’t just challenge Zelenskyy he reframed the entire U.S./Ukraine relationship.
He put Ukraine on notice: no more automatic support, no more unconditional backing. He played to his base, who see Ukraine as a money pit, and sent a subtle message to Moscow: under a Trump administration, Kyiv would have to fight much harder for American backing.
But power is a long game, and the battlefield isn’t just the Oval Office it’s public perception, global alliances, and the 2024 election. If Zelenskyy and his allies can turn Trump’s arrogance into a liability, if they can make the case that abandoning Ukraine would embolden Putin, then Trump’s cold dismissal may come back to haunt him. But make no mistake if Zelenskyy doesn’t recalibrate his approach, he risks becoming a pawn rather than a player.
In politics, weakness is never forgiven, and Trump just made sure the world saw Zelenskyy on the back foot. Whether Zelensky can turn this moment into strength that’s the real game now.

A very accurate summing-up!

Zelenskyy is an incredible force of nature.
Despite the need for US assistance, he refused to just bend to Trump's bullying

  • even when he knew he needed US assistance.

He deserves so much respect for standing up and believing in the right of his country's cause - despite the behaviour of Valance and Trump.

Not only is he remaining strong and a visible - and much needed - presence for his country, but he has been also travelling around Europe visiting foreign leaders to ask for support............. for 3 years.
Can you even begin to imagine what strength, determination and sheer grit that takes.

What he must feel to have to ask, time and time again, for help.

To have to be grateful for the assistance offered.

And to do it with the great dignity this man has managed.

This is the moment for Europe to bloody step up to the plate!! For NATO and the rest of the world to show that they will step up to the plate!!

And to show that it can be done whether the US is in support or not.

(Bloody men and their bloody posturing and their bloody wars! 😭🙄 )

Pootlemcsmootle · 01/03/2025 22:17

deeppremium · 01/03/2025 22:04

This thread shows the very, very large number of people on MN who are extremely supportive of Zelensky.

Exactly! And of the deeply bloody obvious fact that if Russia stopped dropping bombs on Ukraine, and stopped trying to invade it, then there would be instant

Peace
No war
No bombs
No tanks
No invasion
No money needed to fund military activities
No deaths

I mean for god's sake, to state the bleeding obvious, Putin invaded Ukraine so the only person that can stop the war is him. By stopping his ridiculous invasion.

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 22:22

TriesNotToBeCynical · 01/03/2025 22:12

Unless Trump is actually financing Russia, there are no rich countries backing them. China is trading with them, but on their own terms.

I think China is very much financing Russia. Maybe not shouting it from the roof tops, because it wouldn’t be wise for any country to do so, but Russia must be getting help from somewhere other than Iran. It clearly isn’t America. Not long ago there was talk that Russia’s weapons were being depleted, but no mention for a while now, and they seem to be maintaining their attacks very well, with no obvious signs of struggling.

ohfourfoxache · 01/03/2025 22:22

I feel like I’m missing something big here

The US has spent $+++ on conflicts in the past. WW1/2, Vietnam, Korea, Ukraine etc

So this isn’t out of the goodness of their hearts, much of it is to secure influence

But if they are pursuing an isolationist policy, how do they propose wielding influence without the $ to back it up? What is there going to be to prevent the rest of the world from simply ignoring him?

RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 22:23

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 21:55

I stand by what I wrote, thank you very much,

It must be difficult to be one of the few people in the world who have this interpretation. Why does JD wear eyeliner? Do you know?

setmestraightplease · 01/03/2025 22:25

@ @Pootlemcsmootle I mean for god's sake, to state the bleeding obvious, Putin invaded Ukraine so the only person that can stop the war is him. By stopping his ridiculous invasion.

You're only saying that because you're a sane and rational person 🙄

.................... on the other side of the argument we have Putin and Trump 😬

RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 22:25

ohfourfoxache · 01/03/2025 22:22

I feel like I’m missing something big here

The US has spent $+++ on conflicts in the past. WW1/2, Vietnam, Korea, Ukraine etc

So this isn’t out of the goodness of their hearts, much of it is to secure influence

But if they are pursuing an isolationist policy, how do they propose wielding influence without the $ to back it up? What is there going to be to prevent the rest of the world from simply ignoring him?

Trump and JD will threaten the rest of the world with tariffs when most of us are already finding ways to avoid buying anything American.

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 22:26

Mumtobabyhavoc · 01/03/2025 22:15

You must support the Trump/Russia alliance then?
A "failure" to show respect by dressing in a business suit or calling someone by their actual name shouldn't derail negotiations. People's lives are on the line fgs. The fact that it does hasn't shown Zelensky's failure at all. It is becoming more and more clear that Trump had an agenda and it wasn't to secure peace.

As I said in my post, it was Zelensky’s public lecturing that derailed the negotiations. There is no Trump/Russia alliance. There is Trump trying to bring Putin to the negotiating table.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 01/03/2025 22:27

RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 22:23

It must be difficult to be one of the few people in the world who have this interpretation. Why does JD wear eyeliner? Do you know?

Good question. Can I add to this, how long does he spend on his hair? It was very coiffed so I'd take a stab at 45 minutes.

juldan · 01/03/2025 22:28

RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 22:23

It must be difficult to be one of the few people in the world who have this interpretation. Why does JD wear eyeliner? Do you know?

😂😂 Great question. And does he really ski in jeans? I wanna know.@Molly70

Llttledrummergirl · 01/03/2025 22:28

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:13

Let’s dissect this, shall we?

A bully is weak? No, my friend. A bully with power is feared. And in politics, fear is often more valuable than love. A person who treats an equal with contempt is weak? The mistake here is assuming Zelensky was ever an equal in that room.

Power isn't about courtesy it’s about leverage. And in that moment, Trump had it. As for the rest of this moral sermon about liars, praise-seekers, and sycophants well, welcome to politics. If these were disqualifying traits, Washington would be a ghost town.

Now, let’s address the crux of their argument. Did Trump look “weak”? No. He looked transactional. He played to his base, sent a message to Moscow, and reminded the world that under him, nothing is free. Isolationist? Perhaps. But weakness isn’t refusing to hand out blank checks it’s being so dependent on them that you have to beg.

Zelensky, admirable as his resolve may be, left that room knowing one thing: his fight just got harder. Maybe he can turn that to his advantage, rally support elsewhere. But let’s not kid ourselves. Strength in politics isn’t about moral victories it’s about who dictates the terms.

And Trump? He dictated the terms. That’s not weakness. That’s the game.

Nope, a bully with power is still a bully.
Person who has power by bullying is weak, people may fear the power, they don't fear the person.
Trump had leverage, in that meeting he lost it. Other countries can and will step up.
Trump may have thought he was dictating the terms, those terms were rejected.

The biggest mistake you've made is believing the cult of MAGA hype about Trump being king of the world.

Lastly, I am not your friend. Don't try to belittle me by pretending I am.

Imbusytodaysorry · 01/03/2025 22:29

deeppremium · 01/03/2025 22:04

This thread shows the very, very large number of people on MN who are extremely supportive of Zelensky.

You bet !

ohfourfoxache · 01/03/2025 22:29

@RaspberryVelvet but it looks like the tariffs are coming regardless?

I know it’s like trying to figure out a toddler tantrum, but I just can’t see any logic behind anything he does

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:32

Llttledrummergirl · 01/03/2025 22:28

Nope, a bully with power is still a bully.
Person who has power by bullying is weak, people may fear the power, they don't fear the person.
Trump had leverage, in that meeting he lost it. Other countries can and will step up.
Trump may have thought he was dictating the terms, those terms were rejected.

The biggest mistake you've made is believing the cult of MAGA hype about Trump being king of the world.

Lastly, I am not your friend. Don't try to belittle me by pretending I am.

Ah, I see the bravado now lashing out in defense of a position too fragile to withstand a little scrutiny. Let's break this down, shall we?

A bully with power is still a bully? Sure, if you’re looking at power through the lens of morality. But power, real power, doesn’t care about your feelings. It doesn’t need to be liked. It just needs to be feared or respected. And Trump understands that distinction all too well.

What you mistake for weakness is, in fact, the most potent form of strength, transactional dominance. When you force others to negotiate with you, you don’t lose leverage you create it.

As for other countries stepping up well, that’s exactly the game Trump is playing. He doesn’t need to dictate the terms to everyone. He just needs to make sure the stakes are high enough for those who depend on American support. It’s not about being the king of the world it’s about being the one who holds the cards.

No need to pretend we’re friends; I don’t need your camaraderie to make my point. We’re simply two players in a game of chess, and right now, you’re playing catch-up.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/03/2025 22:32

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:13

Let’s dissect this, shall we?

A bully is weak? No, my friend. A bully with power is feared. And in politics, fear is often more valuable than love. A person who treats an equal with contempt is weak? The mistake here is assuming Zelensky was ever an equal in that room.

Power isn't about courtesy it’s about leverage. And in that moment, Trump had it. As for the rest of this moral sermon about liars, praise-seekers, and sycophants well, welcome to politics. If these were disqualifying traits, Washington would be a ghost town.

Now, let’s address the crux of their argument. Did Trump look “weak”? No. He looked transactional. He played to his base, sent a message to Moscow, and reminded the world that under him, nothing is free. Isolationist? Perhaps. But weakness isn’t refusing to hand out blank checks it’s being so dependent on them that you have to beg.

Zelensky, admirable as his resolve may be, left that room knowing one thing: his fight just got harder. Maybe he can turn that to his advantage, rally support elsewhere. But let’s not kid ourselves. Strength in politics isn’t about moral victories it’s about who dictates the terms.

And Trump? He dictated the terms. That’s not weakness. That’s the game.

Is this satire? Everybody outside of Trump supporters in the US think that he’s an irrational, malignant narcissist and a buffoon. You really need to remove your rose tinted specs, Trump has made the US an international laughing stock, absolutely no one respects them or believes he is a credible leader. He’s a giant, orange idiot.

SuperTrooper14 · 01/03/2025 22:32

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 22:26

As I said in my post, it was Zelensky’s public lecturing that derailed the negotiations. There is no Trump/Russia alliance. There is Trump trying to bring Putin to the negotiating table.

Is that you Vance?

There was no lecturing on Zelenskyy's part (do spell his name correctly). There was barracking and bullying on Trump and Vance's though. And to say there's no Trump/Putin alliance is laughable. It's apparent in every toadying comment that Trump makes about him. In fact, here's a handy guide of the 29 times he's done everything Putin wants.

www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskyy-united-states-russia-policy/

Birdie280125 · 01/03/2025 22:33

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 20:39

I don’t think that meeting was the time and place for Zelensky to start lecturing Trump and Vance. He called Vance, JD, which was very disrespectful. Trump ribbed him about his attire when he greeted him but it was a journalist who brought it up in the meeting. Zelinsky was there to sign the mineral agreement and he should have stuck to that and discussed other concerns privately. It was Trump and Vance who were ambushed

Did you watch a different interview to the rest of us? It was a premeditated ambush, the "journalist" asking Zelensky whether he had a suit in such a disrespectful manner was also premeditated