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Zelensky - feeling quite sad

691 replies

Bakewelltart1 · 01/03/2025 20:18

I know that there are several threads about him, but I’ve watched the interview again today.
I don’t know what’s made me feel more sad - how exhausted and disappointed he looked, the fact that English isn’t his first language and it must have been hard to speak, let alone speak whilst being verbally attacked, or the suit question.
When the war is over, I want to buy that man the best suit money can buy!
How can anyone kick someone when they are so down anyway.

OP posts:
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9
RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 21:54

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 20:58

We definitely don’t want to create a war with America. The West against a Russia/America alliance will only create a very likely WW3 and we will all be wiped out. Every country should be working towards peace, not forming alliances and threatening war. It’s scary how some on these threads are baying for war.

Russia invaded Ukraine over three years ago. They could stop dropping bombs right now. That’s the obvious solution.

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 21:55

SuperTrooper14 · 01/03/2025 21:34

I think you meant to write "I don't think the meeting was the time and place for Trump and Vance to humiliate a president of a supposedly ally nation who looked almost broken after fighting a brutal invasion of his country for three years and to try to browbeat him into signing a minerals agreement that would provide zero security guarantees to stop Putin continuing to kill hundreds and thousands of Ukrainians. They deliberately ambushed him, even inviting a reporter from Russian state media inside the Oval (then pretending to kick them out) so their puppet master Putin could see what good and loyal little boys they were being."

There, fixed it for you.

I stand by what I wrote, thank you very much,

SuperTrooper14 · 01/03/2025 21:55

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 21:55

I stand by what I wrote, thank you very much,

You should be embarrassed then.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/03/2025 21:55

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 21:53

Well don’t be

I really will be chap.

Llttledrummergirl · 01/03/2025 21:56

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 21:10

Power isn’t about what’s fair it’s about who controls the narrative, and in that Oval Office showdown, both men were playing for different stakes. Zelensky walked in needing unwavering U.S. support, hoping to reaffirm his country’s moral high ground. Trump, on the other hand, wanted dominance an undisputed claim to being the man who dictates the terms of global order. And let’s be clear, Trump relishes confrontation because in his mind, power is a transaction, not a principle.

Trump didn't just dismiss Zelensky; he humiliated him. Telling him he "doesn’t have the cards" wasn’t just bravado it was a calculated move to strip Ukraine of any leverage. By treating Zelensky as a desperate supplicant rather than a wartime leader, Trump sent a clear message: Ukraine’s survival is a U.S. decision, not a Ukrainian one. And when he coldly stated Zelensky could "come back when he is ready for peace," he wasn’t just shutting the door—he was setting the terms. In one stroke, he positioned himself as the sole arbiter of Ukraine’s fate while making it clear that further support would come with strings attached.

That’s the kind of move a Machiavellian strategist can admire. It’s brutal, but effective. Trump is testing the waters for a potential second term, and he wants the world to know that American policy under him will be transactional—no blank checks, no sentimentality, only deals that serve his interests. Putin couldn't have asked for a better soundbite.

Zelensky, to his credit, stood his ground. But defiance without leverage is just performance. His presence in the Oval Office was meant to project strength, yet Trump turned it into an interrogation. The Ukrainian leader now finds himself in a precarious position: he must maintain international support while dealing with a White House that could turn against him. And make no mistake his visible exhaustion, his struggle to hold the room, all played into Trump’s hands.

Nothing weakens an ally more than making them appear desperate.
That said, Zelensky may have unintentionally played the long game. His fiery defiance has only solidified domestic support in Ukraine. The perception of being “bullied” by Trump could also rally European allies and parts of the U.S. establishment against Trump's isolationist instincts. If he leverages this moment correctly, he can turn Trump’s dismissal into a rallying cry for continued Western aid. The question is will that be enough?

From a pure power perspective, Trump walked away with the advantage. He didn’t just challenge Zelenskyy he reframed the entire U.S./Ukraine relationship.

He put Ukraine on notice: no more automatic support, no more unconditional backing. He played to his base, who see Ukraine as a money pit, and sent a subtle message to Moscow: under a Trump administration, Kyiv would have to fight much harder for American backing.

But power is a long game, and the battlefield isn’t just the Oval Office it’s public perception, global alliances, and the 2024 election. If Zelenskyy and his allies can turn Trump’s arrogance into a liability, if they can make the case that abandoning Ukraine would embolden Putin, then Trump’s cold dismissal may come back to haunt him. But make no mistake if Zelenskyy doesn’t recalibrate his approach, he risks becoming a pawn rather than a player.

In politics, weakness is never forgiven, and Trump just made sure the world saw Zelenskyy on the back foot. Whether Zelensky can turn this moment into strength that’s the real game now.

Edited

While most of this is utter rubbish, this I understand:

In politics, weakness is never forgiven.

A bully is weak.
A person who treats an equal with contempt is weak.
A liar is weak
Someone in need of constant praise and affirmation is weak.
A person who belittles another is weak.
A leader who makes a mockery of diplomatic process is weak.
A leader who offers support and friendship, but at a cost is weak.
A leader who withdraws support from an invaded country, giving it to their enemy is weak.

Trump came out of this weak and without honour. He won't be trusted, and nor will America while he is president and surrounded with sycophants.

Zelensky looks stronger and more statesmanlike. He was calm under pressure and extreme provocation. It's not Zelensky on the back foot.

Trump has done his country a disservice, he wants isolationism, that's what he's going to get. Unless he really is in Putins pocket, which means the whole thing with Zelensky was a set up, and America is a vassal state.

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 21:56

RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 21:51

There will be tens of thousands if Trump visits the UK. Hopefully all holding Ukrainian flags.

I don’t think there will. Because I’ll bet that this time next week, Zelenskyy and Trump will have had a private phone conversation, and all will be well again, with another damage limitation televised talk, and lots of smiles and back slapping.

OhamIreally · 01/03/2025 21:57

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 20:39

I don’t think that meeting was the time and place for Zelensky to start lecturing Trump and Vance. He called Vance, JD, which was very disrespectful. Trump ribbed him about his attire when he greeted him but it was a journalist who brought it up in the meeting. Zelinsky was there to sign the mineral agreement and he should have stuck to that and discussed other concerns privately. It was Trump and Vance who were ambushed

You can't even spell his name.

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 21:57

RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 21:54

Russia invaded Ukraine over three years ago. They could stop dropping bombs right now. That’s the obvious solution.

But they won’t. So what next…?

wordsworthundercover · 01/03/2025 21:57

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 21:41

Yep, and ‘these other countries’ have been supporting Ukraine for three long years. And where are we now? Millions of pounds out of pocket, and absolutely no progress made. There comes a time when surely a rational person would say that throwing money and weapons at the problem isn’t working. Europe give weapons and money to Ukraine. China and Iran provide weapons and money to a Russia. And so on and on it goes. There needs to be another option, otherwise this war could potentially go on for years.

I don't like the rude treatment of Zelensky, but I think Ukranian men fighting on the ground are facing much worse. I am not sure Ukraine can win, especially without US support. Europe can't afford the kind of money the US can stump up. To encourage a war to rumble on is throwing away so many lives, with little hope of a Ukranian victory.

Molly70 · 01/03/2025 21:59

OhamIreally · 01/03/2025 21:57

You can't even spell his name.

Is that all you have to contribute?

pollyglot · 01/03/2025 21:59

@MrsTerryPratchett

Trump is the least Churchillian man to ever walk the earth.

100%, MrsT.P.

The antithesis of everything that Churchill stood for in the war, when his courage and resolve saved Europe.

The least Churchillian and the most reptillian. I honestly believe that he is a throwback to some pre-H.sapiens species, lacking in that which makes a civilised person. No conscience, no self-control, no altruism, no common decency.

RaspberryVelvet · 01/03/2025 22:01

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 21:57

But they won’t. So what next…?

Well, back in 1939 Germany invaded Poland and we went to war. Russia has been invading countries regularly since 1939, starting with Finland. Finland joined NATO in 2023 - Ukraine hasn’t been given the option because Trump is in the pay of Putin.

valder · 01/03/2025 22:02

I'm an elder lemon now, and remember back in the glorious days of my youth reading about how much the Americans hated Communism, the Reds under the beds, McCarthyism etc. and here we are with practically a US/Russia alliance. I know that Russia is not Communist in the old sense anymore, more a dictatorship, but it is no longer a country that is feared by the US either it seems. Trump seems to want to emulate the Russian setup of dictator for life now.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 01/03/2025 22:03

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 21:57

But they won’t. So what next…?

Unfortunately all modern wars are won by wearing the enemy down. Europe can do that, with sufficient determination and building our forces.

Dandelion193 · 01/03/2025 22:03

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 21:53

Russia hasn’t, but neither has Ukraine with the billions in aid, and weapons, got anywhere near winning the war. Btw, I’m absolutely behind Ukraine in this - Russia were the aggressors. But giving a loan to them is like pissing money up against a wall. When the money has gone, the war will still be ongoing. There needs to be some sort of back up plan, or plan B, here.

Plan b can't be Ukraine giving land to Russia, they won't settle for a little bit of land and then peace with resume, they need to be stopped before they can progress. If everyone stopped helping Ukraine it would certainly impact further than the Ukrainian border. What do you think plan B can honestly look like which doesn't resolve some money or resources from other countries

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/03/2025 22:03

itsgettingweird · 01/03/2025 21:47

It would be great if Charles wore a Ukrainian outfit. Fuck Trump.

I always love your simple but powerful responses MrsT

Thanks! Zelenskyy is conducting his pithy responses in a third? fourth? language.

Backwards and in heels.

deeppremium · 01/03/2025 22:04

This thread shows the very, very large number of people on MN who are extremely supportive of Zelensky.

Neighbourissuedaily · 01/03/2025 22:05

ForAzureSeal · 01/03/2025 20:33

The suit question when they had Elon Musk in the Oval Office with what looked like jeans, t shirt and baseball cap on and his son picking his nose... The rank hypocrisy, the lack of grace or manners. Appalling behaviour against any guest.

That said I've listened to some reporting/analysis saying the behaviour from trump is not unusual, it just usually happens in the closed door meetings. And that Zelensky may have been aware what he was doing in not pandering to Trump's ego.

Edited

And you just know they’ll have the Tates in there soon with their 3 sizes too small clothes and that will be fine won’t it

LadyRoughDiamond · 01/03/2025 22:07

While we’re discussing Churchillian qualities, here’s a picture of the great man himself visiting Roosevelt during WW2.

He wore army fatigues.

Zelensky - feeling quite sad
MrsTerryPratchett · 01/03/2025 22:07

@Livelovebehappy the alternative to a stalemate proxy war in Ukraine is a world war. Helping Ukraine with weapons and money means they take the pain and misery and loss and we just pay a little for that.

Putin won't stop at Ukraine. If Ukraine are willing to hold back a monster, the least we can't do is help them.

weirdoboelady · 01/03/2025 22:08

TheOliveFinch · 01/03/2025 21:40

As Trump does idolise the Royal family do sign a petition on change.org to rescind Trump’s invitation to a state visit

I can't find this on change.org Using their (possibly rubbish) search facility the latest petition with Trump in its name is 2021, which seems implausible Can you provide a linky?

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:09

Llttledrummergirl · 01/03/2025 21:56

While most of this is utter rubbish, this I understand:

In politics, weakness is never forgiven.

A bully is weak.
A person who treats an equal with contempt is weak.
A liar is weak
Someone in need of constant praise and affirmation is weak.
A person who belittles another is weak.
A leader who makes a mockery of diplomatic process is weak.
A leader who offers support and friendship, but at a cost is weak.
A leader who withdraws support from an invaded country, giving it to their enemy is weak.

Trump came out of this weak and without honour. He won't be trusted, and nor will America while he is president and surrounded with sycophants.

Zelensky looks stronger and more statesmanlike. He was calm under pressure and extreme provocation. It's not Zelensky on the back foot.

Trump has done his country a disservice, he wants isolationism, that's what he's going to get. Unless he really is in Putins pocket, which means the whole thing with Zelensky was a set up, and America is a vassal state.

I respect your analysis,

Livelovebehappy · 01/03/2025 22:09

TriesNotToBeCynical · 01/03/2025 22:03

Unfortunately all modern wars are won by wearing the enemy down. Europe can do that, with sufficient determination and building our forces.

But this will also be Russia’s position. Wearing down Ukraine. Both have financial support and weapons being provided by third parties. America have now halted their contributions. Can Europe, or should i say those in Europe currently contributing, really be able to match what Russia is getting from other very powerful and rich countries now America has stepped back? I suspect not.

juldan · 01/03/2025 22:10

Patterncarmen · 01/03/2025 20:28

Well, Sir Keir just pledged £2.26 billion to Zelenskyy of support. It is a loan guaranteed by frozen Russian assets. I am grinning ear to ear. Thank you Sir Keir for doing the decent thing which Trump is incapable of. Just reported by the BBC. Let’s hope a European alliance drives back Putin and makes the USA irrelevant and Trump is held to account for the nasty piece of work he is.

Me too, I am so proud of the PM and I am not even British. I might have shed a tear seeing them hug. And the King meeting Zelenskyy on the government’s request. The message to the orange one is loud and clear.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 01/03/2025 22:10

weirdoboelady · 01/03/2025 22:08

I can't find this on change.org Using their (possibly rubbish) search facility the latest petition with Trump in its name is 2021, which seems implausible Can you provide a linky?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/719957/moderation-info

On the government site, but it's not been approved yet.