I am a narcissist

[ohyesido]

I am. But I'm not a horrible person.

I lack empathy but I've learned that it isn't nice to manipulate people.

Yet I still do, only in such a way that no one can ever really accuse me of it. Because I twist my words to indicate that I have everyone's best interests at heart.

Everything I do is calculated to ensure I get my own way while maintaining a facade of good intentions

Can anyone relate?

You're a diagnosed sociopath who would never hurt anyone or harm your family? Do you have a criminal history?

My father's a narcissist or a sociopath or something (I'm not a clinician). My brother's and I were all discarded when we ceased to be a useful source of supply. Honestly, the hardest thing for me to make peace with is that it isn't sad for him to not feel love. He simply doesn't care. Outwardly, he's a lonely old man. No children, no grandchildren. The latest trophy wife milking him for cash. But he's perfectly happy. He literally doesn't care. There isn't karma with these people. There's no point digging for something that's not there. Peace and happiness come from accepting who they are and leaving them behind.

A friend who is a Counsellor suggested it and then I spoke to a GP who said he agreed and referred me to a Private Psychiatrist who confirmed. I also do an online test but those are rubbish really.
I think I did it out of curiosity and because I wanted to better understand what made me how I am. Despite what some people claim I want to be a good parent and a decent human being in general and I hoped that having some clarity would explain things and help me not be "myself" if that makes sense. I haven't had any treatment, I don't see the point as it won't fix anything.

God no, I wouldn't do anything illegal as I fear public humiliation and judgement.
If I could do something without any fear of being caught guaranteed I probably would but then so would a lot of people I suspect and then only if it was something I wanted to do rather than for thrills or anything

You aren't formally diagnosed, are you, Hopping?
You said at first that you think you are probably a sociopath but it doesn't matter because it's only a word, then clarified that a friend has suggested you might be.
Would you ever want to get a formal diagnosis?
I think I am probably a psychopath and sometimes wonder if it would benefit me to have a diagnosis but on balance I think I have more to lose by exposing myself than I have to gain by continuing to mask.

You don't fulfil the criteria for sociopathy because you're not impulsive, you feel responsible, you have empathy and you care about the consequences of your actions. You also have no history of antisocial behaviour.

Do you get rages? Despite how highly he rates himself, my dad isn't astonishingly clever. He's certainly not academic. We learnt as children that we could run rings round him with words. You could see the loss of control building. He'd get sweaty palms and start to stutter slightly. Then he'd beat the shit out of us.

I am formally diagnosed but nobody apart from you lot and the friend who first suggested it knows. People are likely to freak out and make allsorts of stupid assertions.
There was no benefit to me really from diagnosis, apart from the realisation that its actually not my fault I am this way but that doesn't help anyone really.

That was my thought. Usually there’s a pattern of antisocial behaviour prior to diagnosis.

Are you in the UK @Hoppinggreen?

I do get rage but its icy rather than firey, I do quiet menacing rather than shouting.
I am actually very very clever as well. Got a scholarship to Private school, first at Uni. I am very lazy though and don't like being told what to do which has probably affected me career wise but I am happily SE now and my clients love me. We have sort term intense relationships and they think I am wonderfully calm and efficient.

Prisons are full of sociopaths who have been in and out of the criminal justice system for decades. It's often comorbid with other conditions and very hard to work with.

I am in The UK
I am happy to be told I am wrong, I don't want any label BUT 3 trained people think I am a Sociopath or at least have some strong sociopathic tendancies is how they put it. This was around 10 years ago I think.
I also know that most people don't think the way I do, I was actually surprised to discover that one and wish I had earlier.

Totally agree. It’s why I regret spending years being in emotional turmoil and bewilderment over the whole sorry mess. I was ignorant and totally unaware of what a narc and/or sociopath was. As a naturally empathetic and caring person I thought it just took love to fix. Thankfully I am over it and have been for a good ten years now (one day I just literally stopped caring or wondering why it all happened and have never looked back).

I find this a very interesting thread and can read it without any emotion from being on the sharp end of it. I’m just sorry my kids didn’t get the father they truly deserved.

Out of interest, do you know why you feel the need to tell yourself (and others) why you are special?
Are you aware of what it is that makes you special?

I was well into adulthood before I realised that everyone does not (or claims they do not) secretly think like me.

I still don't 100% believe them, tbh. They say they feel, think, are, do... etc re caring and feeling and all that but I don't fully believe that it is the truth rather than them either pretending or being delusional about the true nature of humans. On some level I still think people are generally more like me than they want to believe. Or at the very least would behave exactly like I would if it came right down to it in a severe eg survival situation.

Thank you for answering. My father thinks he's exceptionally clever too. We just became very adept at spotting his weak points. Didn't really pay-off, as I say. It just resulted in rage. But I do think there might be more people who see through the facade than you think. Although, I guess that's neither here nor there to you.

My dad would definitely relate to this way of thinking.

I am not special, I am just a bit different to how most people think as I understand it.
I actually wish I was like everyone else, its probably easier

I think you are right, more people can see through than I initially thought.
It was actually a post much earlier on in the thread that suggested it and when I thought about it I think they are right. People think I am great at first but long term I don't sustain relationships well, the long term relationships I DO have are with people I only see a few times a year or its situational
To be honest while sometimes I think it might be nice to have a close group of friends I think it must be exhausting to go through the mental gymnastics necessary all the time.
My closest long term friend is the person who suggested I seek a diagnosis originally and she knows that I did and what it is. She doesn't seem to care and we enjoy each others company - I do have a bit of a mental checklist to our conversations though as I know I am supposed to ask her about how her son is for example. I don't actually care how is is but I know its an expected thing you ask

Thank you for being so open @Hoppinggreen. It is such an interesting insight although as I write this I think you probably don't care about that! I don't doubt that you love your children and your conscious good parenting is a lot better than many others without sociopathic tendencies can pull off. You say you learned to love your children but it wasn't immediate. I reflect on my own experience that it was like an immediate thunderbolt of both intense love and a primal protection instinct the minute I laid eyes on each of them. It was so easy to love them and put them before anything else. How long did that take to develop and was it difficult to gauge how much to give? Mine are pretty much grown up now too and I joke with them that I would still take a bullet for them without a second thought but I would really have to think about it for DH and I do love him a lot. But it is different. Do you think the primal instinct was there with you but the sociopathic stuff was acting as a blocker that you managed to navigate through?

Absolutely agree
Sometimes I think I am just more honest with myself or more self aware than everyone else, or I would like to think thats true at least

@Hoppinggreen I don’t doubt you have tendencies, but that’s different from a diagnosis. You would have to meet above a certain mark on the diagnostic criteria to have an official diagnosis. As PP mentioned, individuals with a ASPD are often diagnosed after periods of crime and strong displays of AS behaviour, I’m not sure many voluntarily seek out a diagnosis (although I really am not too sure about these figures). That would take a great deal of awareness and personal accountability. As @Anonforthisofcourse shared, that may mean changing a way of being that benefits you or atleast feeling threatened it might.

Also, just to say although a counsellors training includes learning about the diagnostic manuals, because the assessment process for ASPD is so intense and lengthy, a counsellor may be really off the mark. So it sounds like if you were assessed, you may have displayed quite a few traits but perhaps under the criteria?

God, no idea
With DD I think it was about a year but maybe I had PND, I don't think so but who knows? I looked at her and felt nothing other than "Oh shit I have ruined my life". I also made a conscious decision that whatever I did (or didn't feel) that wasn't her fault so I would do my best to make sure she felt loved and cared for. DH adored her from day one so that helped, I mostly copied him and to be fair to MIL I modelled a lot of her behaviour too.
With DS I think it was sooner, maybe a few months or so?
I DO actually care what some people think though but only if I deem you "worthy", most people don't really register or they annoy me and I would like them to go away. I don't want anything bad to happen to people necessarily I would just rather they cease to exist.

While a Counsellor made the intial suggestion a GP and Psychiatrist confirmed it.
I don't really care about the label and maybe they are wrong. Doesn't matter

@Anonforthisofcourse The reason many people find posts from people who have no empathy or care for others and who are constantly wearing a mask interesting is because they really don't think like you. Truly, they don't. Day to day life is not always easy but neither is it a severe survival situation, reality is not an aggression, positive and negative affects about self and others are integreted, accepted, human fallibility is embraced even. I remember a 'friend' in her mid twenties once saying something that I found pretty dark, assuming I would think the same as her. I was truly confused by what she was saying. In that moment as she rapidly calculating whether I was just pretending not to understand, I tried to brush it off as 'oh you're joking, ha ha!' and move on but it was a real glimpse behind the veil moment for both of us.