To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

I remember when I was at school , years ago , we weren't allowed to talk during assembly . The girl next to me said something , and I said shhh , you'll get into trouble for talking . A teacher only noticed me talking and I was the one punished and not allowed to explain .

It was draconian and I've never forgotten it . I'm pleased to say that both my children and my grandchild all attended/attend different schools and there's never been any problems that I know of about them and their friends being shouted at like the school OP has been to .

@Ippimi
I've never myself been to prison even as a visitor but when we have had former prisoners come into school to give talks about what it's like they have never made it sound like school. One point they all emphasised was how bullying and unfair treatment were common in prison, unlike in school.
Also they mentioned how awful the noise was which is mostly unchecked and a nightmare to be forced to experience. Ironically given how much silence in classrooms upsets you.
And children are sent to prison in this country. Children who don't follow rules and later the laws. A police officer told me once what it's like telling a 16 or 17 year old they are likely going to prison for what they have done, and how hard they cry.

I was replying to another poster - who wrote that her daughter said that school felt like jail to her.

School is obviously not going to feel like jail to you , an adult.

But it did feel like jail to that poster's daughter, who has no power in the system

Although, not a teacher, I have been an inner city school governor for over 30 yrs and when they had them I was also a Lay Inspector fo Ofsted. So I will say @Ippimi what I say to new governors, "Just because you have been to school, it does not make you an expert."

Yes, in some ways schools have changed a lot, in many ways for the better but the load on staff and its breadth has increased. If I am honest, I dislike teaching in academies, I think it clips the wings of teachers and am therefore lucky that our schools are still run by the LA and our heads have the freedom they need to deliver a broad education. In a purely personal view, I am saddened that lunchtimes are so short, children and young people need that time to blow off steam and it makes a real difference in class. I am not sure that education has reached its balance yet, I think that academies proscribe too much and I a not sure that their disciplinary methods work for all. What I find really sad is the lack of respect, often on both sides, a dose of politeness goes a long way.

You’re talking out of your arse if you think anyone believes your being left alone with a class of primary children and you think they behave better for you than the class teacher.

@Ippimi Not talking for gods sake. But you can whisper to the person next to you. I've never talked out loud. I've whispered. Everyone does.

No, everyone does not. And that's when it causes a problem. Just like it would with pupils all talking at once to their friends. Surely you can understand this?

How are the children meant to listen to the lesson if they're talking and walking about?
It really is very difficult to deliver an effective lesson to 30 kids when they're talking over you.

I don't know how teachers do it, I guess the only way to command a room is to shout because 30 children is a lot to handle and a lot of noise. However, it is equally unsettling for the children (this is primary school) to be shouted at all day long. They are also told not to speak while they are having lunch and no football at play time (play time can be very restrictive). Just an example of my school. In reality we need smaller class sizes, but how will that ever happen. Schools in villages with a low intake get closed down and more children are crammed into the town schools.

I wish kids talked less when I was at school, my son the same - it's very hard to concentrate and learn if everyone's chatting, or some people are whispering behind you.

My son, too. He struggles with concentration and paying attention but he really tries his best and the one thing he doesn't like about school is how noisy the classroom can get sometimes when he's trying to listen. He is not one of the kids chatting and shouting out - we have had plenty of conversations with teachers about him and he is, if anything, too quiet and reticent in class but he'd benefit from a more controlled environment.

Well I can tell you that I am left alone.

I think you're very naive if you think that some teachers don't want to go to the staffroom and use the hour to correct homework. They certainly do.

I remember being a child in primary school myself.

When we had visitors coming in to give a talk to us, our teacher didn't stay in the room wirh us either

This is not my experience of schools, nor that of the schools my children attend.

I loved school, I still look back on it as the best time of my life. I loved being with my friends so effortlessly, and living life with no real worries beyond what was happening at school.

Also, as nice as it would be if children could live a little more freely for longer, the rules of school are needed to teach people who to live in society. There are times where you just have to listen and get on with work, where you have to be in X location between certain hours, it's only prepping them for the future and it's not bad to learn those skills at all.

Not the ones I know.

And especially not primary schools, which tend to be incredibly happy, positive and nurturing environments in my experience.

It's a shame that you had a bad experience at school. It is even more of a shame that your school didn't equip you with the critical thinking skills to understand the fact that your own experience isn't necessarily representative of all schools in all places at all times.

It's not just my school. I also read a long thread on mumsnet recently where posters were complaining about how draconian schools are.

I've also heard many people complain about their school.

I would just like the system to ge upgraded and improved a bit

In my experience, as a primary school teacher, sure we’d LOVE to go into a different room and get on with our work for an hour but we wouldn’t be allowed. No chance would we be able to leave the classroom for an hour to crack on with our jobs whilst someone from “the outside” came in and was left alone with them.

If you are talking then you are not listening and you are also disturbing those around you who want to listen. Children are expected not to talk so that they listen and learn. That's why they are in the school to learn. If they didn't talk then the teacher wouldn't have to shout at them. Unfortunately the teacher sometimes has to shout to be heard over all the children who are talking, as once one starts then they all do it

I have and continue to do voluntary work with young people. The ones messing around and talking when you are explaining what to do are almost always the ones who don't have a clue what to do when the activity starts.

"I would just like the system to ge upgraded and improved a bit"
@Ippimi
Can you explain how?

Well they are allowed to do it here.

I’m in Scotland so I don’t know if things are different but the schools I went to and the schools my children attended were not like this. My children’s schools are “rights respecting” schools and everyone is expected to be kind and show respect towards each other. I have never heard of a teacher telling a child to “close their mouth” or “shut up”. They don’t wear blazers and uniform is sensible and fit for purpose and they can go to the bathroom during lesson as long as they don’t take the piss (pun intended).

I completely accept that school is not the best place for every child and I think more needs to be done for children who are not alright in school but I don’t recognise the sort of behaviour you are speaking of.

OP you’re a novelty for the pupils, and also they don’t know what you’re like if you’re angry, so they don’t risk winding you up. It’s the same reason that kids behave better for their friend’s parents than they do for their own. You have none of the challenges that their usual teacher has. It’s easy for you to say you let them do what they want, because they’re too wary to push the boundaries with you. But if you taught them day in day out, without ever telling them to sit down or be quiet, I think you’d struggle to teach them much.

Given the multiple grammatical errors and limited vocabulary evident in your posts, I suggest that you should have spent more time listening to, and learning from, your qualified and experienced teachers when you were in school.

Do you mean kids should be allowed to walk and run around while the teacher is teaching? How does that make sense?

I'm texting on a phone while I'm walking outside. I don't know anyone that uses perfect grammar on their phone .

But it's nice that you're perfect!

So, you're delivering training to local schools? How very unusual. What kind of training would this be?
Do the students pay attention to this training, or do they laugh, shout out and talk over you?.