To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

The dancing on the tables does sound like something out of Sister Act 2 😂

My sibling got smacked round the back of the head in school by their primary teacher. 80’s dazzling 80’s 🙄

I don't relate to your experience at all. As a child I loved school from primary to university (in another well developed European country, but still very similar). I never felt trapped or that my childhood was wasted.
I now have a DS in an English primary school and he's also very happy and looks forward to going in every morning. He's young and had to learn to sit on his spot in the carpet/his chair at the table, to raise his hand before talking and don't disturb the class, which sometimes resulted in a "time out". But that's not nearly as traumatic as you describe and he just got the simple social rules quite quickly.
He's still allowed to play a lot at school and I am pretty sure he doesn't feel trapped.

Again, this is does not happen in the UK -children are not left with random adults here.🙄

I know you've said Mumsnet is a global site, but most people are in the UK, and you've claimed all schools are like this, which obviously would include the UK.

@ippimi I have spent a ton of time in schools and I agree with you. It’s not the individual teachers or even the schools at fault but it’s a horrible system and our young people deserve much better. Unfortunately I don’t see it changing any time soon.

So the whole point of this thread is to announce that:

Schools In An Unnamed Foreign County Are Not Very Good.

Well. Enlightening. Glad I clicked on this thread.

@2025NewUserName because OP was basically saying schools are awful places where the teachers tell the kids not to talk, and to sit down, and OP thinks this is wrong. OP says that she lets the kids talk, thereby proving that she is better than the teachers and knows the secret. I argued that it’s impossible to manage a class of children without a degree of firmness and some rules, and I wanted OP to say how she’d manage if things got a bit rowdy.

I’m not a school teacher, and nor is OP, so we’re not trained in this. I recall as a 6th former supervising a class of 11 year olds (we had to do this at my school back in the 80s if a teacher was absent), the pupils all decided to stand on their desks and jump up and down. Private school, not rough, kids generally very obedient. The ringleader was actually a princess. She saw an opportunity and took it!

It's not the case in every school or every class. You are making assumptions based on limited experience.

There are multitudes of workplaces where people are required to communicate with each other in order to get the job done but they're still not allowed to kick back and just chat.

I agree with you that being shouted at all day every day and not allowed to move or talk is draconian, but I'm not at all sure that's the norm in classrooms.

How to tell me you know nothing about prisons

Exactly. Of course it’s hard for a teacher to keep control of 30 kids in a room. But that’s thinking inside the square. Why do we accept that 30 kids of different abilities, circumstances and temperaments should be inside a room with one adult to engage, support, inspire etc?

I read recently that in my state 40% of school pupils are chronically absent. It’s not good enough to say “bad parents” and “screens” and “lazy”. Structural changes are needed so that both pupils and parents can see the benefits of attendance.

That statistic is awful. But not common. In the UK we’re freaking out about much lower chronic absence results than that.

Spot the liar here

What do you suggest? We are where we are. Letting kids talk amongst themselves through their lessons is sure as shit not going to improve their life chances.

We accept 1 teacher per 30 children because that's what the government budget allows. Every teacher knows that smaller classes are better but have no option but to teach the large class in front of them.

OP, you've made a lot of interesting comments, but haven't explained how you would improve the education system. For example: You say it's not right that one teacher is responsible for 30 pupils, so how are you going to change this? Clearly we need more teachers. How are you going to encourage more people into this profession? Who is going to pay for these extra staff? Are you willing to see your taxes increase to enable this? Or should we reduce the amount of children entitled to a free education so each staff member has fewer young people in their care? Also, you say teachers should allow children to disturb others and not be fully engaged in class. What about the rights of those who are being disturbed? The child who is being whispered to deserves the right for this not to happen? Surely the whisperer should have his/her own pen already and not limit their neighbours chances of success! There are many other sweeping points you make, without any suggestions of improvement. Come on! Do better. (Teacher here as well)

…. But this isn’t every school…?

This was not my experience of school, except one horrendous year when I was 8. Other than that, of course you shouldn't be talking while the teacher is, would you start having a conversation with your colleague or moving about the room if your boss was talking? No. It's good manners to sit still and listen.

All the schools I have dealt with as a parent and grandparent are doing an amazing job and the kids love going there 99% of the time.
Of course the teacher needs to stop the kids chatting while she/he is teaching!

I teach and design my classroom seating plan especially so the students can talk, and bring idea together, share their thoughts on specific topics ect I also have painted all my classroom wall with special paint so my students can use a whiteboard pen to work in groups and write their ideas down without too much sitting still. The inspectors were blown away by this so not all classrooms are like that. I often take them to the hall to act out bits that we focus on. All sort of crazy things 😂😂😂😜

Our teachers deserve so much better.

Exactly

Imagine you are giving a talk and 30 kids are having their own conversations at the same time.

How much of you talk do you think they will be listening to?

I had mixed feelings about school. The bad parts were nothing to do with the teachers and everything to do with certain scum I had the misfortune to share classes with. Being built like a runt meant I was an easy target for bullying. The learning part was enjoyable, but I was capable of paying attention when required as a child.

The OP reminds me of a growing problem we are having in this country, that more and more people seem to have a strong objection to following rules, even when following those rules results in a better environment for everyone. There is a huge entitlement attitude that breaking rules for some perceived individual gain is fair game if you can get away with it (e.g., speeding motorists), and if anyone calls you out, just threaten to smash their face in and they'll soon leave you alone. Do we really want to live in this sort of society which trends towards might-is-right where bullies rule?

I wish I farted less at school

Schools, well now Academies are largely modern office type buildings where 1500 kids are crammed in, walking around corridors with no ventilation. Every classroom is the same, JUST enough room, bland, toilets are locked, lunch times are jam packed, definitely a claustrophobic nightmare!