To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

So, tell us - how do you think a class will function if they are all allowed to talk over their teacher and each other? Interested to hear what alternative you would see working and how that would work in reality. Genuinely, educated us. Because you are getting a hard time because we are struggling to understand what a viable alternative would look like.

Good grief. What would you have teachers do? Sit back and not teach so the children can continue on with their social conversations in the middle of lessons?

FFS

Exactly this.

Children are not at school to play, have fun and chat among themselves. They are there to sit down, shut up, listen to what they are told, and maybe actually learn something.

They are forced to go. They don't have a choice.

No, but they probably want to if it's distracting other's from enjoying the film they paid a lot of money to see.

Why yes, yes they are 'forced' to go. Education isn't a 'choice' it's a right and teachers are trying to ensure they actually get one.

Ippimi · Today 14:31

whatawonderfultime · Today 14:29
What country are you from OP?
The UK.

DD2 thinks is like going to jail 😅

Do teacher training.

I'd give you a week before you completely changed your mind.

And yet we have so many children that hate school!

The strict authoritarian system does not suit a lot of children

Schools are like jail!

While you were presenting to the class, would you have been happy if they broke into little groups and chatted to each other, some walked out, then came back, then told a joke that the whole class laughed at, then pointed at something outside and everyone got up and went to the window etc etc. So that no one heard your presentation that you’d worked on? Would that be OK?

Yes you're repeating what I said. Do you have a point?

I said I'm from the UK. And I am at the moment not working in the UK.

My son was given a warning for helping two others work out a sum in maths. If the teacher wasn’t so scary, they’d have asked her. He was happy it didn’t appear on his class charts app, but honestly.

I do realise that we can’t have them all chatting away.

Year 7 now, not as nice a school as hoped.

At Primary school, although a class of 32, it was such a lovely place, and he did outstandingly well, and he’s such a nice guy, liked by all ( his teachers sentiments )

I wish kids talked less when I was at school, my son the same - it's very hard to concentrate and learn if everyone's chatting, or some people are whispering behind you.

If you're there to be taught, then you need to be quiet and listen, and you should have come with a pen or whatever, otherwise, raise your hand and ask the teacher. Learning when it's appropriate to chat, and when it isn't is part of being a good member of society.

Mind you, a teacher yelling like that isn't great, but perhaps they've had persistent trouble with those classes - I know that I was in some classes that had a bad reputation for that for good reason, and yelling was the only thing that even got close to getting us under control

And personally I feel the same about the cinema - my kids are told to shush if they forget they're in a cinema and not at home watching TV, and I think it's rude to talk during a movie - of course, if it's a little one at a kids movie then I'm not so draconian!

They do listen to me, and contribute when I ask them to contribute.

I also let them talk to the child next to them.

They still do the work, that I ask them to do. Talking to the children next to them doesn't interfere with their work.

So no answer to this then OP?

I’m surprised you’ve not come up with a viable alternative. Or actually, Any alternative.

I can understand you may not want to say which country you are in exactly, but give us a rough idea which system - Scandi chill, German streaming, southern European catholic, Eastern Europe soviet inheritance, Montessori gone off the rails?

But what if they all talked, constantly, and didn't listen to you? And when you asked them to contribute they couldn’t, because they had no idea what you were saying, because they’d been watching tiktok on their phone?

I don't think you've mentioned aged of kids - most younger primary years aren't this bad.

Secondary depends on the school - though noise levels being way to loud in classes has been an increasing issue for my DC - noise sensitive and other ND kids.

TBH sitting still and listening not talking really doesn't sound that bad - however at DC secondary there are many draconian rules - lock toilets no libaray access restricted routes very odd ruls round eating, petty uniform rules - and at same time an every decreasing level of behavior often necessitating harsher rules in reponse. I have no idea what the answer is - though hanging on to more experienced staff memembers could help.

As someone who has worked in STCs and YOI's I can assure you that schools are not like jail.

OP I totally agree with you, especially for young children. I think it's crazy to expect young kids to just sit still and listen for 6hours a week. Fair enough maybe for teenagers etc but it's not a good way to learn.
Children only being allowed to pee or drink at certain times and wear horrible uncomfortable school uniforms.
Schools are a horrible environment and frankly a lot of teachers are just awful. You can see why so many kids fall behind and dont reach their own potential in that environment.
I have a friend who teach primary and she says all she does is shout at the kids all day, shes recently had a baby so be interesting to see if she still behaves like that. She expects a group of 30 5yr olds to sit and listen to her all day, she doesnt do anything fun or creative with the kids its mostly sit and listen

You are just a visitor in the school in a professional capacity. I wonder if you would feel differently if you were part of the school community for a longer period of time. If you were a parent and dropped your child at the gates every morning and said good morning to the Head Master at the gates, waved hello to a Mum you knew, popped in to the school office to pay the bill for your child’s lunch. Primary schools, more so than secondary are usually the hub of the community. They are in the UK anyway. You can hear kids laughing and joking at break times, there’s fetes, and nativities, and quiz nights and discos and all manner of raffles and auctions. What you have described is nothing like the primary schools I have been in. Don’t they sing in assemblies? Or are they not allowed to move their mouths? Or would that fall under not being allowed to speak?

However I’ve never stepped foot in one outside of my county let alone the UK so can’t comment on your current experience.

You can't say that definitively for all children.

Perhaps the child who is capable is perfectly happy and able to ignore the input and start a conversation with the child next to them ... but that child may well struggle if they miss the learning input. And then not do as well as they could have.

You clearly aren't a teacher.

Children are allowed to talk in class in the UK. Talking - dialogue and discussion are two ways of learning. There is also a speaking and listening element on the curriculum. However there is a time and a place for talking and a time and a place for listening.

Yes children are told not to talk when the teacher is talking. That is basic manners. How do you propose that children listen to the teacher when talking to their mates? Why do you not have expectations on children to have basic respect and manners?

Kids are removed from classrooms for being disrespectful usually swearing at teachers, telling them where to go or threatening them. That kind of talk is ok with you is it? Kids are not removed for talking about their work and learning from each other. Nope they are not.