To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

Oh that's an awful punishment for just forgetting something.

Ippimi
You haven't told us anything about your employer or personal life so I really don't believe you. I think you have name changed to make a goady post about teachers and schools.

I work in a range of schools in the UK and I don't feel this is the general picture. There are times when the children can't talk - when the teacher is talking and teaching, being the main one - but in general the atmosphere is not usually as you describe.
I remember my school days from the 80s, my school was not very strict but I think school in general is a nicer place now.

As I've already written MULTIPLE times, its not just my experience of one school.

I've just re-read your OP. So this school isn't even in the UK?!

We really need to licence for parenthood.

??

I never said it was. I literally wrote in my first post that it is not in the UK.

Mumsnet is a worldwide website. You know that, yes?

Sorry - I've read most of this, but not every bit.
Normally I do - but, Hey Ho.
Are you by any chance in Sheffield?
If not - it's going on everywhere ... which, sadly, I pretty much knew anyway.
It's So Wrong.

Probably because she knew it was provocative.

There is a recruitment problem in teaching @Ippimi . Perhaps you feel inspired to retrain and show the world of education how much better you can do it?

It'll take more than me to change the school system.

I just feel upset seeing how upset the children are. It's really upsetting

Yes it's going on everywhere.

I'm not in Sheffield though

That school you are attacking OP is doing something wrong, they are letting you spend time on your own with their children. My safeguard lead would stamp down on this instantly. It's a completely unnecessary safeguarding risk.
Is it a primary school?

This doesn’t describe my school as a child nor my children’s school now. There is noise, laughter, 3 x playtime’s. They are allowed to move and speak if they put their hand up. The building is light and airy and children’s art work is displayed in bright fun colours.

I loved school for the chat, high jinx, friendship groups and even the school work.

It’s half term in the UK and this week (I’m mid 40s) I’m meeting up with my school friends and their children for play dates, so we’ve stayed in touch since primary. My 10 year old daughter has just said ‘I love being home for half term but I miss the fun and my friends in school’.

Best days of your life.

So why did you write in the post that I quoted that "maybe" you were just writing about your experience of working in this particular school then?

As you've just clarified that this isn't what you are actually doing, I'm going back to my initial assumptions about your agenda here. You're welcome to go on a little campaign against schools if you like, of course. Just be aware that people will base their judgements on their own experiences and observations rather than on your ill-informed generalisations.

And if all the kids in your class are getting up and walking around and chatting to each other when they should be listening to you are you ok with that?

Many schools don’t suit certain children but some of your points are unfair.

If 2 kids are whispering then they can’t hear what the teacher is saying because talking to one person and listening to another or listening to 2 people at the same time is a very difficult skill. The end of the class is often instructions for the next lesson or homework so it’s important to listen. how would the teacher know if the child was whispering something related to the lesson or talking about something casual ? Your comments about kids not moving in lesson is also unreasonable. If kids were wandering freely then they can’t listen to the teacher or do their work.

How would you feel if your managers and the parents of your students complained that not all the kids heard the instructions because they were disruptive and you had explained the homework ? Wouldn’t you be angry that the children didn’t listen because you explained clearly and carefully and that should be enough ?

How do you suggest that 30 kids learn with one teacher and a list of topics that the teacher must cover that school year? Creating a quiet environment to listen and learn would surely be top of the list?

The shouting may be a cultural thing or necessary because the kids are not well behaved. How does one adult get 30 kids to listen when asking calmly only results in say 25 kids listening ? Why should the remaining 5 be allowed to disturb the rest of the class?

Whispering at the cinema isn’t ok unless you’re a little child needing help to find the toilet in a dark and unfamiliar place.

You still haven't said how old they are.

You're complaining children in another school system in another country aren't talked to fairly.

And then you're comparing it to your experience in the Uk 20/30 years ago.

I missed this bit. School may well be as you have described in some countries. That isn't generally the case in the UK though.

It's a primary school. Yeah they stayed in the class with me the first week. But after that , they left me alone, and they go to a staff room to do marking.

I'd like it if they stayed with me, but they want to go to the staffroom and use the time to correct homework. That's their choice

I work in a primary school. We teach children their rights as part of their PSHE lessons. (www.unicef.org.uk/what-we-do/un-convention-child-rights/)

I did, that why I edited immediately.
It's still an insanely small sample.

This mad child-centric view is why there are so many badly behaved children.

Children should be quiet and learn what they are being taught for free, an education that would cost a fortune in other countries. They need to learn that the world doesn't revolve around them and they need to slot into the world with thoughtfulness and manners.

I include my friends and relatives children in the bad behaviour I see because "kids are kids" and "they should be free to express themselves". I know one couple who plan to home educate as they value the school system less than you and their child isn't suited to a class environment because he rules the roost at home and has no boundaries or discipline.

Those parents will be stumped why their child has no friends or can't hold down a job.

What country are you currently in OP?

And, that aside, what would Your answer be? How would You educate millions of children? Feel free to write a detailed thought out response, I’m particularly interested in how you’d like education to work (you Do still want education, right?).

It's not great and the school you go into seems to have particularly shouty teachers, but it is rude to talk when someone else is talking. If two of my colleagues started whispering to each other while I was presenting in a meeting I'd think they were rude. It's not different for children just because they're not the same age as the person standing at the front, and I don't see the harm in pointing that out to them.

Im trying to reply to everyone. Its a lot of posts! I have all different ages in primary school . I'm in six different classes.