To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

I'm guessing not in the UK.

Ah, I missed that bit from the OP. So, the OP delivers training to children in a different country where they shout at their kids and make them cry. The OP is comparing this with the school she went to when she was a child. Hopefully they are not extrapolating from those two pieces of information that other schools are like that now.

Teachers asking classes of 30 to sit down and not talk whilst they are teaching, on the other hand, is perfectly reasonable. It would be difficult to teach if they were all moving around a small classroom and taking!

I agree with you, I think it's the more sensitive children who suffer in big classes with shouty teachers.

I agree with you OP, and that's why when we leave the country where we're currently living and go back to UK or probably if we go elsewhere, my kids will go back to home ed.

You said they listen to you. Not if they are talking they are not. You are not teaching them anything if they are talking about their mate's party at the weekend when you are bleating on about something. They are ignoring you!

You also said that the teachers leave you alone yet you comment on their teaching. So are you alone or not? Seems contradictory....teachers leave you alone yet you are in the room with them seeing how they teach? Odd!

They need the self-discipline. Success in life depends to a high degree on self-discipline, education and intelligence. It's not helping the last one but it's helping with the first two.

It’s why I’d never work in a school, I’d hate to see what goes on.

At my son’s school they have to sit two to a desk facing one way in silence, and in a seating plan so he never knows the person he is sitting next to. It doesn’t make for a pleasant environment, and when they want the pupils to engage in discussions with each other about the work, they just continue to sit in silence and won’t discuss because they don’t know the person.
It’s totally different at my daughter’s school and she’s much happier because the environment is nicer.

I’ve also been called out many times on Mumsnet and had a thread created about me because of my poor spelling 😂. So it’s not always so great.

Yes I get that, however you could have made your point without the pulling the OP up on her grammar. Mumsnet is full of opinions, this is hers.

Yes, I think they should probably look into whatever magical alternative the vast majority of schools in the Western world are using, that allow students to use the toilet and take off their blazers without descending into anarchy.

Well, she claims they all listen to her for the duration of this unspecified training.

I feel the same. The system is so rigid. They go to school so early, and not enough play. Not allowed a drink or toilet break. Shouty teachers that make other children afraid to ask for anything. Would love to home school if I could.

All listening all talking and all walking around but effective training it is! ha ha!

I agree that quite a lot of schools are this strict. Certainly my experience in several high schools in England. Since moving to Scotland, not sure if it’s a Scottish thing but my childrens high school isn’t like this. No uniform, class sizes are small, no detentions and no homework. They aren’t screamed at. They can leave from age 15 when they have a free period rather than stay at school.
They can go out at lunch and break as soon as they start high school too. Lots more freedom.

How are the children supposed to learn if there is always someone moving or talking?

Re adults, I wouldn’t expect adult students to move around or talk during a class either. A bit of lenience as most adults are assumed to understand the difference between a quick whisper to the person sitting next to them about something necessary (what page are we on? Did you understand that last one?) vs repeatedly and loudly chatting about random things as school children often do.

I'm wondering how much it costs the school. Six classes in total.
I don't know anything about primary schools - what training would that be, and is the training budget so generous?.

I found high school frustrating sometimes because of the class I was in. The boys would never be quiet so teachers were always telling them off. The whole class was even punished a few times because of it. The boys clearly needed a better outlet but it wasn’t fair on the rest of us either.

Depends but in my experience, totally agree! Esp w/ the academies. My daughter was borderline depressed. Way too rigid no creativity. Switched her to a Christian school, her grades went up and she's much happier & thinking of homeschooling the youngest later when their time goes. Hoping to find other parents to do it with.

There is a shortage of teachers. Maybe you could retrain and become one.

I've been a secondary teacher for 20 years and guess what? No yelling.

I run my classrooms with clear boundaries and positive reinforcement of good behaviour. Children learn at a fast pace AND enjoy learning. They get a great experience and I enjoy my job.

It's a state comprehensive in a nice area, I wouldn't want to teach in a trickier area.

My friend was a supply teacher in a primary.
She was appalled that when the dc got to school they weren't even allowed to greet each other.
As she pointed out, nowhere in adult life do workers not spend a few minutes chatting at the beginning of the day.
In fact I would think social skills are important.

So these children have no social time at all? Not allowed to chat as they go into the playground before school?

@Ippimi
If there are children regularly crying and being shouted at indiscriminately have you thought about raising it with the school themselves? You should be able to take a look at their behaviour policy and complaints policy and take it from there.
Would be more effective than a mumsnet post no?

Primary I think is mostly OK. It's secondary, big schools with a thousand or more students, it is institutional by nature. Even now I hate going into school. Could not wait to finish secondary. It was a massive relief to be done with that phase of education. I was a 'good' student who worked reasonably hard and passed all my GCSE's but I could not stand that place. For me it was massively anxiety inducing. Possibly as I'm an introvert.

I agree with you, took my eldest for a tour round a high school recently. They spoke to some pupils in such a detrimental condescending way. Pupils segragared from one another, really sad gardens and a general unhappy feel. The teachers were mainly great and trying their best but, God, it bought back alot of miserable memories. Schools needs more funding imo.

This OP is talking about a primary school.

Also: at any stage of education, it depends hugely on who the teacher in front of the class is. How good they are as a teacher - skills and experience.

Some teachers are engaging, and want to know about their students, making adaptations for children with SEND for example. Some couldn't give a stuff and are not interested in engaging with their pupils as individuals. Generally I have met more of the first kind than the second. But there are plenty of the second group around.