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An unholy trinity or just a seedy threesome: Trump, Musk and Putin? - Trump thread #138

1000 replies

Spandauer · 15/02/2025 20:11

With a side order of Vance, Zuckerberg and Netanyahu.*
(*Other flavours are available)

Whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible.
George Orwell

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5258416-trumpmusk-folie-a-deux-trump-thread-137

OP posts:
Thread gallery
59
notthisoldlineagain · 03/03/2025 11:31

I'm surprised at Peter Mandelson for this
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/03/peter-mandelson-ukraine-comments-not-government-policy-minister

Then I remembered this story from a couple of years ago
https://www.ft.com/content/07238b43-48e6-4e7b-96d2-d50a4ada4646

Deedeesharpwhatkindoflady · 03/03/2025 11:32

Russia no longer a cyber security threat, wonder what deal has been done there?
Does that mean outages for the likes of Microsoft etc will end?.
I still think Russia is responsible for the outages that happen in the UK and major banks etc will not admit to this or are not allowed to admit to it.

SerendipityJane · 03/03/2025 11:33

notthisoldlineagain · 03/03/2025 11:31

There are a lot of moving parts here. The Russians don't have a monopoly on corkscrew thinking.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

TopPocketFind · 03/03/2025 11:35

Lots of new changed names popping up all over the place war mongering and appeasing Trumputin

allyjay · 03/03/2025 11:48

TopPocketFind · 03/03/2025 11:35

Lots of new changed names popping up all over the place war mongering and appeasing Trumputin

I hope it's ok to post here, I've lurked on these threads for a while now.
But on the subject of bots/shills I noticed yesterday on 3 separate Ukraine threads from 3 separate posters the phrase 'pony up' as in 'Europe can't expect the US to pony up money to NATO forever'. I thought that was interesting, can't say I've ever used that phrase in my life, nor seen it on here before, and then to see it on here 3 different times.....Also another one to look out for at the moment is anti-peace. I've seen that along with war mongering being used also. Last night the Kremlin issued a statement that said the meeting of the European leaders was Anti-Trump, anti-Russia and anti-peace. Not long after a brand new poster pops up on a political thread talking about 'anti peace'. They basically all read from the same script and it's starting to become obvious

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 11:53

allyjay · 03/03/2025 11:48

I hope it's ok to post here, I've lurked on these threads for a while now.
But on the subject of bots/shills I noticed yesterday on 3 separate Ukraine threads from 3 separate posters the phrase 'pony up' as in 'Europe can't expect the US to pony up money to NATO forever'. I thought that was interesting, can't say I've ever used that phrase in my life, nor seen it on here before, and then to see it on here 3 different times.....Also another one to look out for at the moment is anti-peace. I've seen that along with war mongering being used also. Last night the Kremlin issued a statement that said the meeting of the European leaders was Anti-Trump, anti-Russia and anti-peace. Not long after a brand new poster pops up on a political thread talking about 'anti peace'. They basically all read from the same script and it's starting to become obvious

Really interesting, I think MN has a massive issue with disinformation being allowed to stand and circulate.

Deedeesharpwhatkindoflady · 03/03/2025 11:59

I think a lot of Americans are going to find out the hard way about MAGA and it's not going to be to their advantage it's going to be Trump and his cohort's and on a global note more of the same.
Trump only does what benefits Trump and his mates.

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 12:06

CaveMum · 03/03/2025 11:23

I wasn’t directing my comment specifically at Zelenskyy per se. More a general “we should be the bigger person” as there’s no point in stopping down to their level.

As the saying goes, never wrestle a pig in mud - you’ll end up dirty and the pig will enjoy it.

True and he’s obviously having to leave what happened at the Oval Office behind and be diplomatic because he needs US support. Starmer is following all the conventions etc. although he’s had more practice at his poker face from being a barrister.

SerendipityJane · 03/03/2025 12:08

Deedeesharpwhatkindoflady · 03/03/2025 11:59

I think a lot of Americans are going to find out the hard way about MAGA and it's not going to be to their advantage it's going to be Trump and his cohort's and on a global note more of the same.
Trump only does what benefits Trump and his mates.

All the MAGA faithful will do is blame the Democrats and Biden. They would sacrifice their children before admitting they were fooled.

We know this because they are sacrificing their children rather than admit they were fooled. Children die from measles.

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 12:08

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 03/03/2025 07:42

I've just seen this, from Heather Cox Richardson. I am deeply depressed, though I suppose it's not new news at all, just an accurate summary. (I can't find a link, so copied and pasted.)
March 2, 2025 (Sunday)
On February 28, the same day that President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance took the side of Russian president Vladimir Putin against Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky in the Oval Office, Martin Matishak of The Record, a cybersecurity news publication, broke the story that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stop all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions.
Both the scope of the directive and its duration are unclear.
On Face the Nation this morning, Representative Mike Turner (R-OH), a strong supporter of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and Ukraine, contradicted that information. “Considering what I know, what Russia is currently doing against the United States, that would I’m certain not be an accurate statement of the current status of the United States operations,” he said. Well respected on both sides of the aisle, Turner was in line to be the chair of the House Intelligence Committee in this Congress until House speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) removed him from that slot and from the intelligence committee altogether.
And yet, as Stephanie Kirchgaessner of The Guardian notes, the Trump administration has made clear that it no longer sees Russia as a cybersecurity threat. Last week, at a United Nations working group on cybersecurity, representatives from the European Union and the United Kingdom highlighted threats from Russia, while Liesyl Franz, the State Department’s deputy assistant secretary for international cybersecurity, did not mention Russia, saying the U.S. was concerned about threats from China and Iran.
Kirchgaessner also noted that under Trump, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), which monitors cyberthreats against critical infrastructure, has set new priorities. Although Russian threats, especially those against U.S. election systems, were a top priority for the agency in the past, a source told Kirchgaessner that analysts were told not to follow or report on Russian threats.
“Russia and China are our biggest adversaries,” the source told Kirchgaessner. “With all the cuts being made to different agencies, a lot of cybersecurity personnel have been fired. Our systems are not going to be protected and our adversaries know this.” “People are saying Russia is winning,” the source said. “Putin is on the inside now.”
Another source noted that “There are dozens of discrete Russia state-sponsored hacker teams dedicated to either producing damage to US government, infrastructure and commercial interests or conducting information theft with a key goal of maintaining persistent access to computer systems.” “Russia is at least on par with China as the most significant cyber threat, the person added. Under those circumstances, the source said, ceasing to follow and report Russian threats is “truly shocking.”
Trump’s outburst in the Oval Office on Friday confirmed that Putin has been his partner in politics since at least 2016. “Putin went through a hell of a lot with me,” Trump said. “He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia… Russia, Russia, Russia—you ever hear of that deal?—that was a phony Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, scam. Hillary Clinton, shifty Adam Schiff, it was a Democrat scam. And he had to go through that. And he did go through it, and we didn’t end up in a war. And he went through it. He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with it. It came out of Hunter Biden’s bathroom.”
Putin went through a hell of a lot with Trump? It was an odd statement from a U.S. president, whose loyalty is supposed to be dedicated to the Constitution and the American people.
Trump has made dismissing as a hoax what he calls “Russia, Russia, Russia” central to his political narrative. But Russian operatives did, in fact, work to elect him in 2016. A 2020 report from the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee confirmed that Putin ordered hacks of Democratic computer networks, and at two crucial moments WikiLeaks, which the Senate committee concluded was allied with the Russians, dumped illegally obtained emails that were intended to hurt the candidacy of Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton. Trump openly called for Russia to hack Clinton’s emails.
Russian operatives also flooded social media with disinformation, not necessarily explicitly endorsing Trump, but spreading lies about Clinton to depress Democratic turnout, or to rile up those on the right by falsely claiming that Democrats intended to ban the Pledge of Allegiance, for example. The goal of the propaganda was not simply to elect Trump. It was to pit the far ends of the political spectrum against the middle, tearing the nation apart.
Fake accounts on Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook drove wedges between Americans over issues of race, immigration, and gun rights. Craig Timberg and Tony Romm of the Washington Post reported in 2018 that Facebook officials told Congress that the Russian campaign reached 126 million people on Facebook and 20 million on Instagram.
That effort was not a one-shot deal: Russians worked to influence the 2020 presidential election, too. In 2021 the Office of the Director of National Intelligence concluded that Putin “authorized, and a range of Russian government organizations conducted, influence operations aimed at denigrating President [Joe] Biden’s candidacy and the Democratic Party, supporting former President Trump, undermining public confidence in the electoral process, and exacerbating sociopolitical division in the US.” But “[u]nlike in 2016,” the report said, “we did not see persistent Russian cyber efforts to gain access to election infrastructure.”
Moscow used “proxies linked to Russian intelligence to push influence narratives—including misleading or unsubstantiated allegations against President Biden—to US media organizations, US officials, and prominent US individuals, including some close to former President Trump and his administration,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence concluded.
In October 2024, Matthew Olsen, head of the Justice Department’s National Security Division, warned in an interview with CBS News that Russia was bombarding voters with propaganda to divide Americans before that year’s election, as well. Operatives were not just posting fake stories and replying to posts, but were also using AI to manufacture fake videos and laundering Russian talking points through social media influencers. Just a month before, news had broken that Russia was funding Tenet Media, a company that hired right-wing personalities Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, Benny Johnson, Lauren Southern, Tayler Hansen, and Matt Christiansen, who repeated Russian talking points.
Now back in office, Trump and MAGA loyalists say that efforts to stop disinformation undermine their right to free speech. Project 2025, the extremist blueprint for the second Trump administration, denied that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election—calling it “a Clinton campaign dirty trick”—and called for ending government efforts to stop disinformation with “utmost urgency.” “The federal government cannot be the arbiter of truth,” it said.
On February 20, Steven Lee Myers, Julian E. Barnes, and Sheera Frenkel of the New York Times reported that the Trump administration is firing or reassigning officials at the FBI and CISA who had worked on protecting elections. That includes those trying to stop foreign propaganda and disinformation and those combating cyberattacks and attempts to disrupt voting systems.
Independent journalist Marisa Kabas broke the story that two members of the “Department of Government Efficiency” are now installed at CISA: Edward Coristine, a 19-year-old known as “Big Balls,” and Kyle Schutt, a 38-year-old software engineer. Kim Zetter of Wired reported that since 2018, CISA has “helped state and local election offices around the country assess vulnerabilities in their networks and help secure them.”
During the 2024 campaign, Trump said repeatedly that he would end the war in Ukraine. Shortly after the election, a newspaper reporter asked Nikolai Patrushev, who is close to Putin, if Trump’s election would mean “positive changes from Russia’s point of view.” Patrushev answered: “To achieve success in the elections, Donald Trump relied on certain forces to which he has corresponding obligations. And as a responsible person, he will be obliged to fulfill them.”

I’m depressed about it too. It’s so obviously a done deal.

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 12:08

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 12:06

True and he’s obviously having to leave what happened at the Oval Office behind and be diplomatic because he needs US support. Starmer is following all the conventions etc. although he’s had more practice at his poker face from being a barrister.

I do think in this instance Starmer being a bit dull and grey is beneficial. He isn’t going to outshine Trump (in MAGA’s view) so isn’t a threat in the way Zelenskyy, Macron etc might be to Trump due to their charisma and public persona.

CaveMum · 03/03/2025 12:14

Agree that Starmer’s “steady as she goes” persona will be his Trump card (if you’ll pardon the expression!)

We’re going to need a new thread in the next day or so, any ideas on a new title?

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 12:14

BBC News reporting that a Trump-Putin summit of being “fast tracked” and that discussions on ending the war in Ukraine will “take a back seat in place of potentially lucrative US-Russia economic deals”. Apparently such “deals” are already being tabled behind closed doors.

Deedeesharpwhatkindoflady · 03/03/2025 12:18

Surprise, surprise.. crooked fucker!!

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 12:22

Deedeesharpwhatkindoflady · 03/03/2025 12:18

Surprise, surprise.. crooked fucker!!

I’m honestly so worried that Trump might actually come in fully on Putin’s side and support his war, particularly if Putin makes him think there are riches for Trump the US in it for him.

Spandauer · 03/03/2025 12:25

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 12:14

BBC News reporting that a Trump-Putin summit of being “fast tracked” and that discussions on ending the war in Ukraine will “take a back seat in place of potentially lucrative US-Russia economic deals”. Apparently such “deals” are already being tabled behind closed doors.

Trump wants a "deal"... any deal to show what a tough negotiator and business man he is (not). Presumably he can't get the immediate peace deal he wanted to crown himself with so he's now concentrating on a business deal that makes him look "good".
What a fool - he'll end up selling the family silver and get Reds under the Beds in every nook and cranny of US government.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 03/03/2025 12:28

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 12:14

BBC News reporting that a Trump-Putin summit of being “fast tracked” and that discussions on ending the war in Ukraine will “take a back seat in place of potentially lucrative US-Russia economic deals”. Apparently such “deals” are already being tabled behind closed doors.

So buying stuff from the US will be funding Russia ?

PerkingFaintly · 03/03/2025 12:29

allyjay · 03/03/2025 11:48

I hope it's ok to post here, I've lurked on these threads for a while now.
But on the subject of bots/shills I noticed yesterday on 3 separate Ukraine threads from 3 separate posters the phrase 'pony up' as in 'Europe can't expect the US to pony up money to NATO forever'. I thought that was interesting, can't say I've ever used that phrase in my life, nor seen it on here before, and then to see it on here 3 different times.....Also another one to look out for at the moment is anti-peace. I've seen that along with war mongering being used also. Last night the Kremlin issued a statement that said the meeting of the European leaders was Anti-Trump, anti-Russia and anti-peace. Not long after a brand new poster pops up on a political thread talking about 'anti peace'. They basically all read from the same script and it's starting to become obvious

Interesting. Thanks for mentioning that, @allyjay

"Pony up" is a phrase I might use myself, but of course it's hardly standard English.

So as you say, 3 separate posters on 3 separate threads all in the same context and a very short space of time...

I do remember hearing that Russian* shills/bots are taught English language colloquialisms, often from UK TV shows, to make them sound more authentic. But that they often overuse or misuse the colloquialisms so sometimes it actually makes the shill/bot sound out of key.

As a great user of colloquialisms myself, I can hardly suggest that anyone sprinkling them freely must therefore be a shill/bot! But clearly the opposite isn't true: we can't rule out a poster out as a shill/bot just because their English sounds colloquial.

So tedious and draining dealing with the constant suspicion this behaviour (quite intentionally) sows.

*other varieties are available

Deedeesharpwhatkindoflady · 03/03/2025 12:30

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 12:22

I’m honestly so worried that Trump might actually come in fully on Putin’s side and support his war, particularly if Putin makes him think there are riches for Trump the US in it for him.

It most definitely is a scary prospect.
I'm sure our intelligence services will be planning for the future.

Wallaw · 03/03/2025 12:58

Spandauer · 03/03/2025 12:25

Trump wants a "deal"... any deal to show what a tough negotiator and business man he is (not). Presumably he can't get the immediate peace deal he wanted to crown himself with so he's now concentrating on a business deal that makes him look "good".
What a fool - he'll end up selling the family silver and get Reds under the Beds in every nook and cranny of US government.

The cynical part of me, which is now pretty much all of me, wonders if that was the goal all along - a world where the US is propping up the Russian economy. Truthfully, that's the most value Trump can give Putin.

Wallaw · 03/03/2025 12:59

PerkingFaintly · 03/03/2025 12:29

Interesting. Thanks for mentioning that, @allyjay

"Pony up" is a phrase I might use myself, but of course it's hardly standard English.

So as you say, 3 separate posters on 3 separate threads all in the same context and a very short space of time...

I do remember hearing that Russian* shills/bots are taught English language colloquialisms, often from UK TV shows, to make them sound more authentic. But that they often overuse or misuse the colloquialisms so sometimes it actually makes the shill/bot sound out of key.

As a great user of colloquialisms myself, I can hardly suggest that anyone sprinkling them freely must therefore be a shill/bot! But clearly the opposite isn't true: we can't rule out a poster out as a shill/bot just because their English sounds colloquial.

So tedious and draining dealing with the constant suspicion this behaviour (quite intentionally) sows.

*other varieties are available

That's really interesting. I think of pony up as being quite American and of an older generation - I could see my parents using it - but not something I hear often. I wonder if it's in active use at the moment on Leon's brokeass platform.

PerkingFaintly · 03/03/2025 13:18

Truthfully, that's the most value Trump can give Putin.

Yes, it's immensely valuable to Putin.

It effectively sanction-busts, rescues the Russian economy to some extent, and will also be very attractive to Trump as making him "first on the ground" among returning foreign companies (boost for his own companies, boost for other US companies – especially his buddies').

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 13:35

There’s been another bloody attack in Germany. obviously first and foremost thoughts are with those hurt or impacted but these things are like catnip to the far right!

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 13:55

TOMORROW NIGHT WILL BE BIG. I WILL TELL IT LIKE IT IS! - Trump on Truth Social an hour ago. Oh I can hardly wait….

BIossomtoes · 03/03/2025 13:57

He’s really fucking losing it, isn’t he? I hope somebody had the sense to hide the nuclear codes from him.

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