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An unholy trinity or just a seedy threesome: Trump, Musk and Putin? - Trump thread #138

1000 replies

Spandauer · 15/02/2025 20:11

With a side order of Vance, Zuckerberg and Netanyahu.*
(*Other flavours are available)

Whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible.
George Orwell

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5258416-trumpmusk-folie-a-deux-trump-thread-137

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59
Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 03/03/2025 07:42

I've just seen this, from Heather Cox Richardson. I am deeply depressed, though I suppose it's not new news at all, just an accurate summary. (I can't find a link, so copied and pasted.)
March 2, 2025 (Sunday)
On February 28, the same day that President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance took the side of Russian president Vladimir Putin against Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky in the Oval Office, Martin Matishak of The Record, a cybersecurity news publication, broke the story that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stop all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions.
Both the scope of the directive and its duration are unclear.
On Face the Nation this morning, Representative Mike Turner (R-OH), a strong supporter of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and Ukraine, contradicted that information. “Considering what I know, what Russia is currently doing against the United States, that would I’m certain not be an accurate statement of the current status of the United States operations,” he said. Well respected on both sides of the aisle, Turner was in line to be the chair of the House Intelligence Committee in this Congress until House speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) removed him from that slot and from the intelligence committee altogether.
And yet, as Stephanie Kirchgaessner of The Guardian notes, the Trump administration has made clear that it no longer sees Russia as a cybersecurity threat. Last week, at a United Nations working group on cybersecurity, representatives from the European Union and the United Kingdom highlighted threats from Russia, while Liesyl Franz, the State Department’s deputy assistant secretary for international cybersecurity, did not mention Russia, saying the U.S. was concerned about threats from China and Iran.
Kirchgaessner also noted that under Trump, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), which monitors cyberthreats against critical infrastructure, has set new priorities. Although Russian threats, especially those against U.S. election systems, were a top priority for the agency in the past, a source told Kirchgaessner that analysts were told not to follow or report on Russian threats.
“Russia and China are our biggest adversaries,” the source told Kirchgaessner. “With all the cuts being made to different agencies, a lot of cybersecurity personnel have been fired. Our systems are not going to be protected and our adversaries know this.” “People are saying Russia is winning,” the source said. “Putin is on the inside now.”
Another source noted that “There are dozens of discrete Russia state-sponsored hacker teams dedicated to either producing damage to US government, infrastructure and commercial interests or conducting information theft with a key goal of maintaining persistent access to computer systems.” “Russia is at least on par with China as the most significant cyber threat, the person added. Under those circumstances, the source said, ceasing to follow and report Russian threats is “truly shocking.”
Trump’s outburst in the Oval Office on Friday confirmed that Putin has been his partner in politics since at least 2016. “Putin went through a hell of a lot with me,” Trump said. “He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia… Russia, Russia, Russia—you ever hear of that deal?—that was a phony Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, scam. Hillary Clinton, shifty Adam Schiff, it was a Democrat scam. And he had to go through that. And he did go through it, and we didn’t end up in a war. And he went through it. He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with it. It came out of Hunter Biden’s bathroom.”
Putin went through a hell of a lot with Trump? It was an odd statement from a U.S. president, whose loyalty is supposed to be dedicated to the Constitution and the American people.
Trump has made dismissing as a hoax what he calls “Russia, Russia, Russia” central to his political narrative. But Russian operatives did, in fact, work to elect him in 2016. A 2020 report from the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee confirmed that Putin ordered hacks of Democratic computer networks, and at two crucial moments WikiLeaks, which the Senate committee concluded was allied with the Russians, dumped illegally obtained emails that were intended to hurt the candidacy of Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton. Trump openly called for Russia to hack Clinton’s emails.
Russian operatives also flooded social media with disinformation, not necessarily explicitly endorsing Trump, but spreading lies about Clinton to depress Democratic turnout, or to rile up those on the right by falsely claiming that Democrats intended to ban the Pledge of Allegiance, for example. The goal of the propaganda was not simply to elect Trump. It was to pit the far ends of the political spectrum against the middle, tearing the nation apart.
Fake accounts on Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook drove wedges between Americans over issues of race, immigration, and gun rights. Craig Timberg and Tony Romm of the Washington Post reported in 2018 that Facebook officials told Congress that the Russian campaign reached 126 million people on Facebook and 20 million on Instagram.
That effort was not a one-shot deal: Russians worked to influence the 2020 presidential election, too. In 2021 the Office of the Director of National Intelligence concluded that Putin “authorized, and a range of Russian government organizations conducted, influence operations aimed at denigrating President [Joe] Biden’s candidacy and the Democratic Party, supporting former President Trump, undermining public confidence in the electoral process, and exacerbating sociopolitical division in the US.” But “[u]nlike in 2016,” the report said, “we did not see persistent Russian cyber efforts to gain access to election infrastructure.”
Moscow used “proxies linked to Russian intelligence to push influence narratives—including misleading or unsubstantiated allegations against President Biden—to US media organizations, US officials, and prominent US individuals, including some close to former President Trump and his administration,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence concluded.
In October 2024, Matthew Olsen, head of the Justice Department’s National Security Division, warned in an interview with CBS News that Russia was bombarding voters with propaganda to divide Americans before that year’s election, as well. Operatives were not just posting fake stories and replying to posts, but were also using AI to manufacture fake videos and laundering Russian talking points through social media influencers. Just a month before, news had broken that Russia was funding Tenet Media, a company that hired right-wing personalities Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, Benny Johnson, Lauren Southern, Tayler Hansen, and Matt Christiansen, who repeated Russian talking points.
Now back in office, Trump and MAGA loyalists say that efforts to stop disinformation undermine their right to free speech. Project 2025, the extremist blueprint for the second Trump administration, denied that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election—calling it “a Clinton campaign dirty trick”—and called for ending government efforts to stop disinformation with “utmost urgency.” “The federal government cannot be the arbiter of truth,” it said.
On February 20, Steven Lee Myers, Julian E. Barnes, and Sheera Frenkel of the New York Times reported that the Trump administration is firing or reassigning officials at the FBI and CISA who had worked on protecting elections. That includes those trying to stop foreign propaganda and disinformation and those combating cyberattacks and attempts to disrupt voting systems.
Independent journalist Marisa Kabas broke the story that two members of the “Department of Government Efficiency” are now installed at CISA: Edward Coristine, a 19-year-old known as “Big Balls,” and Kyle Schutt, a 38-year-old software engineer. Kim Zetter of Wired reported that since 2018, CISA has “helped state and local election offices around the country assess vulnerabilities in their networks and help secure them.”
During the 2024 campaign, Trump said repeatedly that he would end the war in Ukraine. Shortly after the election, a newspaper reporter asked Nikolai Patrushev, who is close to Putin, if Trump’s election would mean “positive changes from Russia’s point of view.” Patrushev answered: “To achieve success in the elections, Donald Trump relied on certain forces to which he has corresponding obligations. And as a responsible person, he will be obliged to fulfill them.”

BIossomtoes · 03/03/2025 08:04

That last sentence is chilling.

Lalgarh · 03/03/2025 09:19

O b l I g e d.

Re: Musk / Vance checking in on Trump as minders.

Blue Sky users are pondering this clip of Trump splaying and seemingly dragging his leg as he leaves his golf cart

https://bsky.app/profile/gtconway.bsky.social/post/3ljgknuxm5c2f

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

TopPocketFind · 03/03/2025 09:40

Trump is meeting Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth later today to discuss suspending or cancelling aid for Ukraine

SerendipityJane · 03/03/2025 09:42

Serpentstooth · 02/03/2025 22:40

I think I read that Murdoch feels his USA political pets have become quite unruly and he's not that keen on all the rabble that Bigly's collected around him. I may be wrong but enthusiasm dimmed, hopefully.

I suspect it's too late now. I can see the Murdoch empire being crushed beneath the wheels of MAGA. Another greedy grasping fucker who thought they were immune to the chaos they sow.

(We can but hope).

See also: Mitch McConnell

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 09:50

Igotjelly · 02/03/2025 21:21

The Daily Mail were leading this morning with a headline saying that Zelenskyy used a slur (can’t remember which one) against Vance. So siding more as you would expect them to.

It was “bitch” in Ukrainian. He used it twice when JD was shouting. It’s on the video.

heldinadream · 03/03/2025 09:50

I know all the noises coming out of the Europeans and Trudeau over the weekend are politics and diplomacy, but I actually feel the sooner we all face up to the fact that for the moment the USA is basically hostile the better.
And get on with being independent of and separate from them.

SerendipityJane · 03/03/2025 09:52

TopPocketFind · 03/03/2025 09:40

Trump is meeting Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth later today to discuss suspending or cancelling aid for Ukraine

But like the USAID and other DOGE targets, this money was allocated by Congress. Fuck all to do with the Executive.

However, I did read elsewhere that even if a federal court orders to stop this, Trump would simply pardon officials who disobey the court rulings.

Funnily enough, I have been refreshing my understanding of the Revolutionary war (it always pays to go back to the source). It seems that even in the 1770s, some people were uneasy about the fact that the power of Presidential prerogative was too close to those of a monarch.

TL;DR is thanks you SCOTUS you now have a King. Enjoy it.

ChatGPT:

Absolutely! That’s a fascinating aspect of the Revolutionary War period. Many of the Founding Fathers had very mixed feelings about consolidating too much power in one person’s hands, even if that person was the president of a republic. The whole point of the Revolution was to break away from a monarchical system, so they were deeply wary of any new system that might resemble what they had just fought against.

Figures like Thomas Jefferson were particularly vocal about their fears of centralized power. Jefferson, for example, was very suspicious of any moves that seemed to elevate the president to a level of authority even remotely close to that of a king. In fact, when George Washington and later John Adams took actions that seemed to expand executive power (such as Washington's neutrality proclamation in the 1790s), Jefferson and his followers in the opposition party (which would later become the Democratic-Republican Party) saw these moves as a dangerous precedent.

The issue of presidential power was a topic of much debate during the drafting of the Constitution as well. Some of the framers were leaning toward creating a strong executive, while others were afraid of replicating the abuses of royal power. In the end, they created a system with checks and balances, where the president had significant authority, but Congress and the judiciary would act as counterbalances.

What’s also interesting is that some early critics of the presidency even thought the office could potentially devolve into a monarchy over time, especially if the president were allowed to serve for too long or without sufficient oversight. So, while there was certainly admiration for Washington's leadership, there were also concerns about the future and the possibility that a powerful president could gradually take on monarchical qualities.

It’s a fascinating tension between wanting strong leadership but being deeply wary of the temptation to abuse that power.

heldinadream · 03/03/2025 09:52

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 09:50

It was “bitch” in Ukrainian. He used it twice when JD was shouting. It’s on the video.

Lol as if I could not love the man more, the idea that he was calling Vance bitch in Ukrainian in front of basically the whole planet is just fucking delicious and delightful.

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 09:54

AcrossthePond55 · 01/03/2025 18:21

You know, I've been thinking back to pre-WWII and that period when the US was hell bent on neutrality. Europe had to 'look to itself'. I think I know now how part of the US citizenry felt, so angry and helpless at the US turning its back on Europe and the storm on the horizon. And how they must have hoped and prayed that Europe would be able to fight Hitler, or that our Country would wake up and do what was right. It took Pearl Harbor to open up the eyes of the Nation to the need to fight fascism and dictatorship.

What is it going to take now to realize that Ukraine is just the first step for Putin? When are those who are brushing their hands and saying "Not our problem". Because it's going to become our problem if Putin has his way.

Trump is basically a 'Manchurian Candidate' made real.

I hope the Summit goes well and is fruitful. And bless Charles for showing solidarity in the main way he can.

I think the Polish and Finnish leaders were on the front row in the photo because they were both invaded by Russia in 1939 and have most reason to think they will be next.

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 09:57

heldinadream · 03/03/2025 09:52

Lol as if I could not love the man more, the idea that he was calling Vance bitch in Ukrainian in front of basically the whole planet is just fucking delicious and delightful.

Exactly - I also thought it was very restrained of him not to yell it. Apparently JD took it badly that Zelenskyy addressed him as JD and didn't use an honorific.

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 10:06

Igotjelly · 02/03/2025 21:21

The Daily Mail were leading this morning with a headline saying that Zelenskyy used a slur (can’t remember which one) against Vance. So siding more as you would expect them to.

They were strongly supporting Zelenskyy on their front page the day after the Oval Office shouting.

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 10:10

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 09:50

It was “bitch” in Ukrainian. He used it twice when JD was shouting. It’s on the video.

This is wonderfully passive aggressive!

Wallaw · 03/03/2025 10:10

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 09:57

Exactly - I also thought it was very restrained of him not to yell it. Apparently JD took it badly that Zelenskyy addressed him as JD and didn't use an honorific.

If anyone in the world is deserving of being called a smug little bitch, it's JD (or whatever he goes by at the moment)

CaveMum · 03/03/2025 10:33

🤣 at Zelenskyy calling JD a bitch!

But in all seriousness that is a pretty big miss-step (though I doubt anyone there will have realised). There’s a lot to be said for respecting the Office even if you don’t respect the man.

PerkingFaintly · 03/03/2025 10:39

Yesterday there were two threads started on MN by brand new usernames, each asking for differences between the US/Americans and the UK/Brits.

This is the same day that Russian media was trying to portray the Europeans' meeting as somehow ganging up on America, and an official Russian statement described the meeting as somehow "anti-Trump".

So I'd say this is a wedge the Russians will now be hammering in energetically.

Wildflowers99 · 03/03/2025 10:42

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 09:57

Exactly - I also thought it was very restrained of him not to yell it. Apparently JD took it badly that Zelenskyy addressed him as JD and didn't use an honorific.

Awww poor JD The Right Honorable Vance or whatever he wants to be bloody called. Zelenskyy also called Starmer ‘Keir’ which Starmer managed not to have a hissy fit about. English is his second language, it makes total sense he can’t remember the intricacies of who is addressed as what. When Vance can speak Ukrainian, he can come back to us.

What is amusing is that I’m sure Trump and Vance see that awful meeting as looking ‘strong’n’sticking it to the lefy Europeans’. Whereas to us they look weak, unbearably thin skinned and easily triggered. Not qualities of a leader.

SerendipityJane · 03/03/2025 10:43

PerkingFaintly · 03/03/2025 10:39

Yesterday there were two threads started on MN by brand new usernames, each asking for differences between the US/Americans and the UK/Brits.

This is the same day that Russian media was trying to portray the Europeans' meeting as somehow ganging up on America, and an official Russian statement described the meeting as somehow "anti-Trump".

So I'd say this is a wedge the Russians will now be hammering in energetically.

Let them. I'd rather be right than friends with the US.

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 10:44

CaveMum · 03/03/2025 10:33

🤣 at Zelenskyy calling JD a bitch!

But in all seriousness that is a pretty big miss-step (though I doubt anyone there will have realised). There’s a lot to be said for respecting the Office even if you don’t respect the man.

He spent 10 hours on a train and 11 hours on a flight to get there and be yelled at by the man with the most punchable face on the planet. He was far more disrespected than he was disrespectful. JD should go to Ukraine and shout there with bombs falling around him.

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 10:48

Wildflowers99 · 03/03/2025 10:42

Awww poor JD The Right Honorable Vance or whatever he wants to be bloody called. Zelenskyy also called Starmer ‘Keir’ which Starmer managed not to have a hissy fit about. English is his second language, it makes total sense he can’t remember the intricacies of who is addressed as what. When Vance can speak Ukrainian, he can come back to us.

What is amusing is that I’m sure Trump and Vance see that awful meeting as looking ‘strong’n’sticking it to the lefy Europeans’. Whereas to us they look weak, unbearably thin skinned and easily triggered. Not qualities of a leader.

That is exactly what I thought when he said “Keir” - it’s his third language and he can’t be expected to remember every single title, especially with jet lag.

kattaduck · 03/03/2025 11:04

CaveMum · 03/03/2025 10:33

🤣 at Zelenskyy calling JD a bitch!

But in all seriousness that is a pretty big miss-step (though I doubt anyone there will have realised). There’s a lot to be said for respecting the Office even if you don’t respect the man.

He didn't call Vance a bitch he said cyka blyad which means something like fuck damnit. Not a smart thing to say but not an insult.

SerendipityJane · 03/03/2025 11:09

kattaduck · 03/03/2025 11:04

He didn't call Vance a bitch he said cyka blyad which means something like fuck damnit. Not a smart thing to say but not an insult.

Curious how a country that is probably the only country on earth worse at foreign languages than England is suddenly an expert in other countries tongues ? Their own president is barely intelligible.

CaveMum · 03/03/2025 11:23

Mela74 · 03/03/2025 10:44

He spent 10 hours on a train and 11 hours on a flight to get there and be yelled at by the man with the most punchable face on the planet. He was far more disrespected than he was disrespectful. JD should go to Ukraine and shout there with bombs falling around him.

I wasn’t directing my comment specifically at Zelenskyy per se. More a general “we should be the bigger person” as there’s no point in stopping down to their level.

As the saying goes, never wrestle a pig in mud - you’ll end up dirty and the pig will enjoy it.

notthisoldlineagain · 03/03/2025 11:23

PerkingFaintly · 03/03/2025 10:39

Yesterday there were two threads started on MN by brand new usernames, each asking for differences between the US/Americans and the UK/Brits.

This is the same day that Russian media was trying to portray the Europeans' meeting as somehow ganging up on America, and an official Russian statement described the meeting as somehow "anti-Trump".

So I'd say this is a wedge the Russians will now be hammering in energetically.

It's more obvious than it's ever been, and it's getting called out much more now. They always go for division, it's their purpose.

Goldenbear · 03/03/2025 11:27

notthisoldlineagain · 03/03/2025 11:23

It's more obvious than it's ever been, and it's getting called out much more now. They always go for division, it's their purpose.

Yes, I would argue that this is not just new names, ones where they flip flop on their opinions appear inauthentic, that said, you can change your mind on something I suppose.

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