DS school refusal is driving me mad

[VerityUnreasonble]

I'll start this I guess by saying I'm not expecting any magic solutions, I'm mostly just having a moan.

DS is in year 7, we've had issues with him refusing school for the last 3 years. His attendance hovers around 85% which was much the same in year 6, it was slightly better in year 5.

DS has a diagnosis of ASD, he is academically very able, socially not so much but he's not upset by this.

Reasons he currently refuses to go in are:

He's tired (probably true - he is under sleep clinic and prescribed melatonin, also slightly defiencient in vitamin D and B12 which he is being treated for)

He doesn't feel well (sort of true - usually means he has a slight cold)

He has to go too much / there are too many days in a school year (this is his major reason at the moment, he doesn't want to go because he doesn't like it and feels he has to be there too often)

It starts too early (he will occasionally go in slightly later or for the afternoon)

There are various lessons / things he dislikes (sports/ presentations etc. - contributes to some days being worse than others)

Have tried both carrot and stick approach, the only thing he's really fussed about is access to his tech but even using that as a bribe / punishment isn't effective. Have tried reasoning and talking, he can explain very eloquently the reasons he should go, and even wants to go, he just still doesn't.

I'm missing bits of work, being late, having to rearrange things. I'm stressed about it all the time. School have requested a meeting in a couple of weeks to discuss "how to improve things" but honestly I have no idea.

I just have no idea how things are going to get better!

As l said earlier. Less than 3 out of 10 ASD adults are employed.

Mainly because of arsehole employers who won’t accept they need adjustments.

Where have you got your stats from?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-report-and-recommendations/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-report-and-recommendations#:~:text=2%20Despite%20their%20wish%20to,10%20for%20non%2Ddisabled%20people.

Stata from here I expect.

@VerityUnreasonble yiurs sounds similar in some ways - mine has no outward SEN nothing you could get a report or help with thiugh he has had therapy, his peers really like him but he can just about tolerate it at school but no parties/park etc.
His sibling is the opposite excellent attendance (always above 95% and always due to illness) very good grades etc

i work from home now (freelance) in part due to this but because it made sense.

we looked at online but he does like it when he manages it.

the things he hates though is about people looking at him PE answering questions etc because he just feels uncomfortable in his skin

I could have written this post OP. ASD DD, year 7, attendance around 82% (same in primary). Most of the reasons you mentioned plus DD also has quite high anxiety.

School thankfully don't seem bothered by attendance. I was pretty clear from day 1 that I preferred her to go in some of the time rather than start to totally refuse. She does have some support in place too.

I have no answer. I mainly WFH but I find it incredibly stressful when I have meetings etc so you have my sympathy.

Exactly what tells you that? You don’t know enough to say that.

the ability for men in particular to hide mental health difficulties is huge - you have nothing to back that up at all

My dd is 13 and I am just about to go through a private adhd / asd assesment. I cannot wait 2 years for CAMHS as she will be sitting (or not) GCSEs by then.

She tells me she hates school but luckily she is still going. She is getting into trouble for a particular bit of uniform - she would rather be suspended than change it. I said before that I would change it to something else but it's become clear over the last month or so if I did that it would tip her over the edge and I don't think she would go to school.

I have another dd parented the same who was an angel at school - my youngest just cannot cope.

WFH, working in a small office, self employed, working outdoors, sandwich lunch (that’s not in a noisy canteen), part time work, ability to focus on an area that suits skills. These are all examples of things that are possible in the working world and very different to doing multiple subjects in a building with 1000-2000 noisy, badly behaved teenagers who take the piss when you can’t play football or say the wrong thing in French.

I do not have direct experience, so may be speaking out of turn.

But say you had one person who was truly phobic about spiders. Could barely even look at a picture of them or hear the words creepy crawly without sticking their fingers in their ears.

And another person who didn’t much like spiders, would repress a shudder if one ran over their hand, would close their eyes whilst they vaccuumed away a web.

If you offered the second person £500 to spend 5 mins in a glass box with a spider, they could probably manage it. But you wouldn’t expect the first person to do it, no matter how much logic you gave them about spiders being harmless etc.

The idea of telling a school refuser “how the real world works” and expecting that to make a difference to the mental block of distress that is getting in the way of their attendance would be as ineffective as trying to bribe an arachnophobe to hang out with an spider. With the added complication that you are asking a school refuser to fight their distress day after day after day, not just for 5 mins.

Same here. My middle ND child has PDA. I don’t think people without knowledge or understanding of it can comprehend how difficult it is getting a child with PDA to ‘comply’.

OP my aforementioned DS14 was out of school for the majority of last year. Finally came out of a burn out and was doing well only to relapse again.

It is like de ja vu and I am doing all I can in order for it not to consume me as the whole stress of last year caused so much trauma to everyone in the family!
Thankfully I fought hard for an EHCP although not sure how helpful it will be.
My son struggles to wake and won’t communicate to me why he can’t go in. It’s so difficult. I did everything in my power to get him through the burn out last year - I don’t think I can go through it again 😩
Notfineinschool was a lifesaver. It’s shocking to see how many members there are and how many kids struggling (a lot are neurodivergent). Hang in there. I know exactly what you are going through x

@SheilaFentiman

Yes this!!

Clearly you have never had to deal with a neurodivergent child. This is NOT a parenting issue and needs expert assistance from a range of professionals.

The problem is the length of waiting lists these days and the lack of government will to change things. School is not a 'one size fits all' solution for our SEN children.

I would cut off wifi during the day. It’s got to be boring at home for him to prefer going to school. It’s hard OP, especially with Sen children, but I have found the absence of using devices helps motivate.

I’m guessing you don’t have experience of autistic children who will sit without moving or speaking for days at a time!
It’s hard to imagine for most of us. I certainly couldn’t do it. When I asked ds what was going on in his head in those times he said he was playing Tetris in his head- who needs a screen, eh?!

Seriously, it is a tiny bit insulting to think parents of school refusers haven’t thought of or tried taking away screens. If only it was that simple.

That's not what I asked. I asked what if giving up your job would mean losing your home.
I know lots lose their job - or choose to give it up because they don't want to leave a 12yr old home all day.
But what do expect people to do who would literally lose the roof over their families head if they didn't go to work and lost their job?
This is more a question for the people who claim they absolutely couldn't leave the child home.
The reason I ask is because there don't seem to be any parents of Ebsa children who literally cannot make that choice to stay home?? It always seems to be that the one parent is able to give up their job because the family has one higher earner or other means

I’m sorry OP, I’ve skimmed this post, but seen you’ve had lots of great support already from those who unfortunately do get it from lived through experience.

A few things I don’t think have been covered, but apologies if they have:

’All children do well, if they can’. Dr. Ross Greene. The very notion that a child ‘chooses’ to do badly is absolutely ridiculous. There are clearly unmet needs, and that needs unpicking.

You need to do an EHCNA request. Don’t listen to anyone who says you won’t get one, and be prepared to fight.

Try to find your people. I was really struggling with my son in school the other day, and school were gaslighting us and another (SEND) parent said it was very clear to them at drop off that my son was not coping. There’s no point asking a load of NT parents to NT children how they get them into school. They can’t even begin to imagine the fight.

Another view is, we need to listen to our children. If this was the other way round, what would school do? If at the end of every school day your child refused to go home? I would like to hope that would set off alarm bells and have a safeguarding concern raised. Why is the other direction is dismissed so easily.

Ypu need to find a more suitable learning environment and then fight for it! Good luck.

Out of interest, how long did you take screens away for?
Because all the parents I know have caved after a few days. Have you removed screens for 6 months?

SEND families are often forced to give up work. It’s yet another stress for them. It’s not uncommon at all to only have one wage earner in a SEND family. I know many families that have been forced to give up work. When forced, you find a way, but many are just sadly forced to go on benefits and scrape by.

He clearly is struggling with something! He’s autistic and schools are not designed for the ND brain.

ive worked in state secondaries and special needs secondaries, and I have an adult son with ASD, and cannot honestly believe the unhelpful almost stupid responses here.

yes there is the occasional kid who with firmer boundaries would have better attendance. But for the vast majority of those with <85% attendance there are legitimate concerns. Those saying just tel them what to do from a young age - do you have any experience of SEN?!?!

my son is now at Uni, and even they are accommodating to the days he can’t physically go in. At school his attendance gradually got worse, but his mental health did improve when we went to a more fluid timetable in years 12/13. He just couldn’t cope with 1100 students around him day in day out, the noise, the busyness. Yes, neurodiverse kids are “tired” because they have to work hard every day to tune out the stuff that most of the population can ignore.

OP, when you go in, can you ask about a more structured part time timetable? This is a horrific term for kids tbh, it’s dark, it’s hard, it’s a slog. And so many need adjustments. What has DS said he would like to do when he’s older? Is he struggling with subjects that have no interest or need for him as that’s pretty typical? Is there a particular teacher he responds well to that he could let you know what they do that helps? Is there a particular classroom or teacher he dreads some mornings? Is it morning form time?

there have been studies that suggest teens would respond better to a school that is 10-6 rather than 830-330, but sadly that doesn’t seem to be something anywhere can put into place.

I’ve been here with my daughter. Firstly, try to reframe it as he can’t go, not won’t go.

You've had some amazing advice (and some poor advice) but I fully understand how difficult this is. We took my daughter out in year 2 and it’s been amazing for her. Home ed has its own challenges but nothing like the stress of having a kid who can’t attend school.

Why didn’t l think of that?🙄

I don’t understand your point. Some people do lose their homes. They don’t end up on the streets because we have a benefit system and they move into a different home.
It isn’t always that one parent can give up their job because there is a higher earner. Perhaps you only know people like that (there are plenty of us here on Mumsnet) but I know several families where it’s a single mum and she is in a desperately anxious situation trying to support the family when the child won’t go to school and she can’t get to work.

Screens are a valuable regulation tool for autistic kids. Removing them is taking away something that can prevent meltdowns.

Why, have you?
Interested to know the results of your miracle autism cure trial.