Woman evicted from NHS hospital ward after being stuck for 18 months

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c897ew0ekp4o

So what would you suggest then?

Security definitely do throw aggressive patients out.
I found a bloke comatose outside a hospital with a drip still in his vein

I reported it to the hospital and they said security had evicted him for staff abuse.

I thought you were all bish bash get it sorted? Pass some powers,innit
I am telling you the difficulties and realities of complex mental health care on a medical ward
Im also telling you there are no powers as you suggested

potentially therapeutic techniques or assign an HCA as a diversion or reward the appropriate behaviour etc. None of them have “powers” though

Purely based on the 1 article, it seems like there was a lot of things offered but she refused.

She had an advocate, asked for another one but did not engage with the new one. So she had no advocate because of her actions.

The council apparently looked at 120 placements and she refused the one she offered as the town gave her 'bad memories' but wouldn't disclose what. Is that trauma or was that her refusing?

She probably is deemed to have capacity which is why it's taken so long for any action to be taken and having to remove her by force by being arrested.

Removal from a department or ward has a SoP and parameters
Was she aggressively wearing headphones
The ejection of someone else unlikely to be applicable to her circumstances

she refused the one she offered as the town gave her 'bad memories' but wouldn't disclose what. Is that trauma or was that her refusing?

I am willing to wager actual money that the "bad memories" are sexual abuse. What else would a woman clam up about when asked to disclose?

I know there are no powers currently.

I think there should be. It would be relatively easy to legislate for if the will was there.

Or in the short term, have separate wards that all the voluntarily disruptive people are moved to and leave them to disturb each other.

This is nonsense. Absolute "I have drank the coolaid and have to tell everyone how very nice it tastes" total, utter bollocks.

I am someone who had a VERY close relative living in one of those institutions who was safe and happy and who had a LIFE there.

I got to watch him being discharged into the community TO SAVE THE GOVERNMENT MONEY and spend the next 30 years being constantly found 'sheltered' accommodation, making himself homeless because he could not help himself from hoarding and would therefore be evicted as a fire hazard, sectioned every year or so, two spells in prison, abusing his medication by either selling it or taking loads of it all at once because HE HAD THE RIGHT AS PART OF THE "CARE IN THE COMMUNITY" to refuse monthly injections and demand pills instead, and abusing any drug or alcohol he could get his hands on because it was preferable for him than having to endure the non-stop voices in his head. He was in constant ill-health, malnourished, filthy and utterly, totally neglected. He was simply unable to look after himself and completely unable to make the decisions that might have helped himself.

He eventually died after falling out of his window to get away from the council because he was about to be evicted again as a fire hazard AGAIN for the umpteenth time. And trust me, if he hadn't died that would still be being repeated again and again.

A whole life FUCKED and LOST because as someone with a lifelong mental illness he was not looked after because the state dismantled the one nd only system that kept him and so, so many others like him safe, just to make a short term financial gain.

And the whole country has been paying through the nose for it ever since.

There was only one option to choose from. Her original care home and 120 others refused her. The court needed to make her take the only package offered.

My parent was in one in the 80s - was tied to a bed with metal cuffs, forced to have ECT (which has eventually taken her away from me) and was kicked by ‘nurses’ so no, I haven’t ’drunk the cool aid’ - I just don’t want others to go through what my lovely lovely mum did.

That was justified removal. Is the patient aggressive to other patients or staff, is the agression a choice, not a result of delerium etc, then yes security can remove them. I work in an inner city A&E, we remove patients daily, however, we also have security present to stop patients who want to leave from leaving as they, in that moment, do not have the capacity to make that decision. Security works both ways.

In the event of a disruptive patient, who plays music all night, or talks on the phone, or is argumentative over a shared tv etc, but requires treatment, the solution is often they are put in a side room. However, side rooms are in short supply and this sint always possible. We as staff can tell a patient their behaviour is disruptive to the sleep and recovery of other patients, we cannot force them to change the behaviour though, we also cannot just remove them if they need to be there when they arent actually causing a potentially dangerous situation. It doesnt work like that.

The court could have compelled a retendering exercise. Taking away RTC sets a dangerous precendent.

And if there was still only one choice after that?

You can only offer a choice where a choice is available.

I was in hospital at Northampton General for 3 weeks in March last year - and on the same ward as this woman for 2 of those weeks.

There is way, way more to this than the article reports, but top and bottom is she didn't want an alternative, she wanted to stay in that bed, on that ward with all her basic needs being met. She would boast frequently about how she would stay there for as long as she wished and that she wouldn't accept any accommodation offered to her.

Next time Bambi can then arrange a more suitable home at their own leisure....18 months picking & choosing sat in a medical hospital bed is not necessary.

Correct, there are no such powers and no it isn’t easy to legislate or implement change in practices around restraint or removal of patients. Nor will it be quick

Voluntarily disruptive? Exclude psychosis then, as that is not wholly under individual volition or choice. psychosis can be a compulsion and a compelling drive to behave in a certain way

separate wards?literally where? If there was under occupancy on ward there would not be trolley care in ED

where do the involuntary disruptive who need medical or surgical care that can’t be provided in a psychiatric hospital, where do they go?

They don’t need to force her to wear headphones but if she refuses to turn off loud music that is disturbing other patients and impacting their recovery why is it such a stretch for her to be thrown out? All she has to do is not listen to the music.

Then you force a choice to become available somehow. These private care providers are happy to take our cash, it should be an obligation that they must make an offer for all patients.

If someone is involuntarily disruptive (and yes, I am including psychosis in that) then a side room if available (for their own comfort and safety as much as anyone else’s) or the other patients would, sadly, just have to tolerate it until the treatment is complete.

Playimg music without headphones, or some of the horrendous behaviours I’ve read about on here about disruptive men staying on maternity wards, is a behavioural choice. People shouldn’t have to put up with other people’s poor choices.

She’s not going to be happy anywhere.

I can understand why being in the hospital might have been soothing for her. There’s a sense of being disconnected from the real world, being safe and having all the care you need just a buzzer away. I was in a private room in A&E for nearly 10 hours last week (DH had flu) and caught myself thinking how lovely it would be to be admitted for a few days holiday 😂

People like Jessie need the security of an old-fashioned mental hospital. She’s obviously making a right nuisance of herself again now she’s back in the outside world.

Those boxes seem to be full of packaged food/milkshakes.

Even where admitting an individual would impact the safety / treatment of other patients? That makes no sense.

"Boast" is a very loaded choice of word. I've told people, or more accurately screamed loudly at them, that I'm not going to a particular place. I wasn't boasting: a more accurate description would have been "terrified defiance".

Good spot. ARFID would support my hypothesis of misdiagnosed autism.

I suspect whatever care was offered wouldn't be good enough for this lady. My brother has a similar mental health illness and nothing is ever good enough for him - he's like a spoilt child who does nothing to help himself but is critical of anyone who tries to help him. I've backed off because I can't do anymore for him. I don't know what the answer is but taking up a hospital bed unnecessarily can't be allowed