Woman evicted from NHS hospital ward after being stuck for 18 months

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c897ew0ekp4o

I do believe we need to have more services where people are sectioned with leave to the community (as in low secure forensic services).

there are many people that are not really forensic patients but need that robust care plan with good therapeutic provision

they are often in and out of hospital cycle that is more damaging for them, but as pp mentioned the recovery model that is really positive for many patients(and also ticks off lots of positive boxes) but some patients there is very limited recovery and we get to the point when the recovery stalls, behaviour then often regresses or there are no changes (that doesn't mean that will never happen but while trying sets them back or they become stuck)

There are a number of people who will constantly need high levels of support and personal care. The structure of a hospital like setting its more therapeutic to them, they feel safer, they are provided with care, decisions that they find overwhelming are taken off them and boundaries are tighter.

I can not stress enough how much one person can negatively impact a mh community setting and set back other patients and often this is not down to lack of processional support its that the setting just is not right for them, its overwhelming to make everyday decisions and its not fair on other community patients

we need a model to support patients like this

1. Sectioning someone is not easy. There are time limits and mandatory reviews.
2. Sectioning can't be used to kick someone out of hospital, only to keep them in it.

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/social-care-and-your-rights/mental-health-and-the-law/mental-health-act/

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/sectioning/about-sectioning/

She was evicted from her previous care placement and so was homeless. "Somewhere to live" is a need that all the other people didn't have.

And that's why the court was able to order her eviction. Courts have the authority to look at the care package and accommodation offered and say "she might not like that but it will suffice for her needs". We don't grant just anyone authority to make those decisions because that power is easily abused.

It's probably already been mentioned but an 18 month admission (of a well person) would prevent 78 (unwell) people being admitted from A&E for a week each.

But it’s not a medical need. Hospitals aren’t meant to be the places of last resort for non medical needs and they’re the only place we have that can treat sick people, so why should her non medical needs be weighed in the balance against the medical needs of many other people?

Come on @selffellatingouroborosofhate . I'm nowhere near Northamptonshire but if I was and my very unwell, medically unstable bedbound DH had to spend a night in the corridor while she was occupying a bed I wouldn't be happy. Who would?

Whatever the whys and wherefores (and I'm NOT advocating her being turned out onto the street) some people are very, very hard to help and would be very, very hard to help even if we didn't have the crap, rundown services we do at the moment. I have no intention of giving examples that I came across in my working life because it is absolutely wrong to do so, but this is the truth, that some people are so very, very hard to help that their behaviour is antisocial and affects the rights and wellbeing of others.

She was not homeless, she had a flat with two carers available to her, she just didn't want to go there and wanted to stay in hospital.

I’m so sorry, how incredibly distressing 💐

Hospitals aren’t places to live, they’re medical facilities. In addition, she was offered a flat with two carers 24hrs a day (far, far more than my very ill relative got) but she chose not to go there, and, moreover, chose not to engage with her advocate.

I wondered if your job sieved the results. My job was the complex snd semi complex discharges...so if you looked at my caseload you'd think that all the discharges were like that.

Men with the same behaviour patterns are described or assessed with anti social PD more often than not, or no diagnosis and dealt with via the criminal justice system, which is how this woman should have been dealt with in my view.

LollyPop . You sound like an incredible caring person. Best wishes.
You also confirm what I thought … she is being enabled.i am guessing her Mum also suffered physical violence from her too.

"some people are very very hard to help"
nailed it

I don't much of her personal life as I only met her mum twice at parents evenings. She seemed out of her depth though and struggling. When Jess would lash out at other kids, obviously the parents would get involved and as far as I saw, Jess faced no punishment and her behaviour was excused by her mental health and cognitive abilities so she never really faced consequences.

This reminds me if an ex friend of mine

She was a lovely,warm friendly and would-do-anything-for you type of friend

I knew she had an awful temper,had been in trouble with the police,fallen out with loads of people (but she was my friend and she told the tales of it all being other people and not her) and suffered with her mental health but it's non of my business-I would help if I could because she was my friend

She helped me through a miscarriage,helped me in labour,helped me breastfeed,helped me in and out of the shower after the birth,got up in the night to help me etc

Anyway,it was a few days before Christmas and she and my ex went out (with my money-he was a cocklodger) to buy my Christmas present

Instead,they got arseholed in the pub,came back to mine and beat me up (he stood there and did nothing-she was like the taz devil)

Told lies to my children about how I didn't want them (try explaining to a 9 and 7 year old what an abortion is),smashed my house up,broke my nose and finger,screamed none stop at us and tried to snatch my baby out of my arms

They left and I managed to phone the police-and soon as they heard her name they where 'what they hell did you do to annoy her?we're not paid enough to deal with her-shes got mental issues' and they walked out,leaving me standing in the mess that was my home and my crying children (she wasn't even spoken to,let alone arrested)

She shagged the hell out of my ex (just to prove she could) and made my life hell for months (they broke up 6 weeks after they ran off together,just as the landlord had had enough and wanted them out,so she burnt the house down)

Her mother was a victim of her who enabled her for an easy life

She'd been the school bully-just like how you describe Jessie in her younger years but had her mum wailing that she had 'mental health issues'

Not once did she get punished for what she did or face the music-it would be covered up for an easy life-if they tried to make her face up to what she'd done,she'd 'cut up' or smash her surroundings up,so it was easier to let stuff go (she wasn't even questioned over the house fire-her mum swore she hadn't even been home that night,even though the firemen had dragged her out and it was all dropped)

She got bigger and older-nothing changed-anyone challenged her and she'd slash herself or do something just as attention seeking (vomiting was a common one or putting windows through)

She was in and out of various mental health hospitals but was too hard to deal with/refused to co-operate so she was just allowed to do what she wanted

Her sister (who was a lot older than her) refused to have anything to do with her after a beating too far and her abuse

Her mother just made endless excuses for her but was just as much as a victim as I was-the difference was she enabled her

The mother died (an early death) and ex friend moved away

I heard from her about 5 years ago via Facebook and she's not changed-she blames everyone else (including me) for her problems,knows all her rights but refuses to take responsibility for her actions (I just blocked her-im not taking anymore of her crap)

I'm just waiting to read about the death of her boyfriend who is just as much an enabler as her mother was

I'm so sorry. That is awful and I really hope you're doing better. Good on you for blocking her. It sounds like she got enabled so much and just did whatever she wanted regardless of who she hurt along the way. Unfortunately Jess was never very warm and friendly. Even when myself and another girl managed to 'befriend' her, if we did something she didn't like or didn't do exactly as she demanded then we'd get a swift smack. Somewhere in the post, someone mentioned she spat at a fellow patient and she did that a fair bit and she also attempted to bite the other girl that had tried to befriend her. Eventually I just kept my distance. The boys still bullied her but from a safe distance, which was awful as no one deserves to be bullied and made fun of.

Does she have siblings?

She's an only child, that much i do remember as she and i had that in common.

Why wouldn't the police do anything?

I mentioned upthread that a women once told me that she could stab me and nothing would happen to her because she'd just come out of the mental hospital. MH was like a 'get out of jail free' card for her. I'm guessing it's the same for your friend.

No you just remove the ruddy music player!!

I read your post-it was exactly the same (I love your username)

They'd had so many dealings with her over the years

I found out later that she had been arrested well over 150 times and would fight the police like a feral wildcat

She'd put police officers in hospital but got away with a small fine (that her mum would pay) and a stay in hospital,because of 'mental health'

The policeman walked in,saw hundreds of pounds worth of damage (I was a skint single parent and had to work for years,just to replace some of the damage) and asked what on earth had happened

As soon as I said her name,he went white and said he couldn't do anything as she was 'ill' and had 'bad mental health'

He then asked what I'd done to set her off

I answered with 'where have you two been?' and apparently I shouldn't have said that and it was my own fault

He then walked out-I did complain but got nowhere with the police

Years later i was watching a police style TV programme with ds and my town came up

They'd blurred her face out (id know her voice anywhere) but she was fighting the police-theyd toned it right down but one officer was bleeding from where she'd scratched him on his face and the other officer was trying to hold her at bay (badly) until his colleagues showed up

The voice-over said she was released without charge

What had set her off?

They lady in the kebab shop had asked if she wanted salt and vinegar on her chips

Nursing and other staff do not have the right to remove devices from patients, they arent there in a position of authority, they are there to ensure care and medical needs are met. If a person choses to behave in an anti social way, theres very little staff can do, they can only intervene if behaviour is potentially dangerous to staff and patients, such as violence/agression, smoking, drug/alcohol consumption etc.

I’m sorry no one protected you as a child.

@LollyPop89
Do you know why Jessie might need a wheelchair and personal care? My thoughts (although might be completely wrong) is this is another way to control those around her.