Woman evicted from NHS hospital ward after being stuck for 18 months

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c897ew0ekp4o

If someone has capacity to consent, they have capacity to deal with the consequences of their refusal to opt into the help given to them, mental illness or not.

There’s a difference between offered and eligible!

The main reason my position on assisted suicide has change to now being opposed is the inclusion of mental illness in eligibility in many jurisdictions.

But they could refuse to accept the consequences were their fault. That can be not uncommon - it’s everyone else’s fault not the person’s. They can’t (or won’t) link the consequence with their action or non-action.

I mentioned choices earlier and I think that’s a good way to deal with people like this woman. As said, the fact she’s got all her stuff piled around her doesn’t look safe (or hygienic) for anyone. Most hospitals are very strict about keeping things out of the way so the floor is clear. Yet they appear not to have been strict about this with this woman. Maybe if they had been able to, that might have helped a little.

Who brought all the stuff to the hospital? If it was her mother or the previous care home, why didn’t the hospital refuse it? I guess she refused suggestions about where to store it by simply saying No when offered. But, if she was offered a choice then that might have worked better, and might have facilitated the removal of the excess stuff. That choice should then have been implemented. If she refused to opt for either option, the consequence of that should have been made clear and actioned, eg “You can chose A or B, whichever you prefer. If you don’t choose, we will have to do C as you cannot have this amount of stuff around your bed. Your stuff will still be safe and you can choose a bag’s worth to keep with you plus your dolls”.

Choice C would be something like social services arranging storage of the items. I imagine this is the ‘tough love’ talked about earlier (at least, I hope so).

I’m glad I’m not a vulnerable patient in Northamptonshire. Fair enough the poster who was on a ward with her is under no obligation of privacy, but another poster claims her police officer husband and nurse SIL furnished her with all the private information about this woman that she has now posted on Mumsnet. Outrageous.

Yes. There’s a lot of people who like to claim their ‘rights’ but don’t want the accompanying ‘responsibilities’. What on earth can society do with people like this woman?

Yes it is totally outrageous. The police officer and nurse should be sacked.

On a Doctor’s thread on Reddit some suggested an old style mental home.

Depressing.
Possibly a COI of 50% by sounds of it.
Coefficient of inbreeding as you mention “brother”.
It happens. Close inbreeding causes all sorts of problems.

In these sort of circumstances, how can you support someone that refuses it? She was there 18 months, a lot of help and support would've been offered to her and explained in various ways. She claims that she didn't understand what they were telling her, requested an advocate, got one then did not engage at all.

Do we go back and start sectioning people that have capacity to force them to have support and therapy and do the things they're told and be dosed up with whatever a clinician sees fit, regardless of the person's wishes?

She could have paid for storage out of her benefits. It's not like she was paying any bills whilst she was in hospital.

Don’t most benefits get stopped if you’re in hospital for an extended period?

I agree there will have been a solution to storage other than piling things up around her bed, but perhaps she refused and nobody could figure out how to make her - I don’t know what the legal position would have been if the hospital had said “no, the stuff can’t live there”

Yes benefits get stopped if you are in hospital this long. She would have only had a small weekly allowance to pay for essentials like toiletries, clothes and haircuts. She would not have enough to pay for storage.

My daughter has been accused of attention seeking. I asked them to reframe it as support seeking.

You maybe don’t have a learning disability, but honestly, I could see this happening with my daughter. If the correct care was put in at the start, with knowledgeable care givers, the government would save money in the long run.

If someone has EUPD, does pandering to their unreasonable demands not make it worse? Teaching them that everything they demand will happen, that manipulating people will work etc.
Should this not have been more firm but fair? For example, no you’re not allowed to pile up your belongings around your hospital bed because it’s a fire risk/hygiene issue so we’re going to remove them no ifs and buts.

Did you read the post where a mumsnet user had the misfortune to spend 10(?) days opposite this PD woman on a ward?

PD was gorging , vomiting into a bowl then poured the vomit onto her face and pretended to choke on it when she didn’t get her own way?

This kind of behaviour is extremely antisocial-

Even doctors on another forum said “ where does one put someone like this who isn’t Ill but has these personality disorders?

One wonders about the mother and her role in creating this- Giving in to tantrums &c

Our nearest big hospital is Blackburn, some sections of society treat it as a day/night out. There's always someone outside in a gown on a drip smoking and usually has a mate in a hospital gown in a wheelchair missing a leg also smoking. If you have grown up neglected and ignored, you crave attention, that can be from health professionals or the police. Go in any deprived town and if there are a couple of police it's the scrotes that hang round them.

I've not read the article but my summary is that the mother perhaps shouldn't have been in a position to have a baby, but again having a baby guarantees you some love doesn't it.

Thankfully we have laws to prevent this type of abuse towards vulnerable people. It does still happen.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Taking away the human rights of a person acting inappropriately is not the way we treat pervasive mental illness and/or complex PDs in 2025.

I have worked with people who have extreme behaviours as a result of brain injuries, both non traumatic and traumatic. Young onset dementia is another one. Frontal lobe damage can result in a person who may be exceptionally difficult to manage. It can happen in a blink of an eye too. They were not born like this. Some of you would do well remember that it could be you or your child or partner. They could be walking down the road and fall or even just have a ruptured aneurysm. Before you know it, the person is suddenly one you don’t recognise and one you may not even like very much.

Agreed. It’s unprofessional and degrading. It is why so many people lack trust in those in positions of power. If it’s true, shame on that police office and nurse.

I deal with emotionally charged situations at work, I have been physically and verbally abused. I would never speak about a situation to the point a family member could identify a person and then post about them on social media. I am deliberately vague and change details or simply state it was a hard day. There is absolutely no excuse.

Social services pay storage fees for all sorts of things, up to and including whole housefuls of furniture in some situations. The option would have been offered her.

No wonder Council tax bills are so high!

'staff able to deal with her'

What would that look like then? Who can deal with such behaviour as has been described on here

These types of thread really show up the people that have never been presented with patients and clients like this, they make comments like 'if their needs are met well', 'they need to be where their needs can be met'

You cant meet the needs of people like this. Not without going back to putting people in institutions and medicating them and most people say they dont want that.

This problem is further compounded by mental health working under the 'recovery' model. Too often this is used to excuse not offering any further access giving the reason that the person has been given everything possible already. There is no provision for people who generally struggle to function in life, and who need an high level of support and care. Its not necessarily wrong that the person isnt continually offered something which has not worked for them. But the gaps between services have become gaping chasms and women like this - who would be challenging to support even in an ideal world - just show how much things are not working. And the poor NHS pick up the slack.

I don't have a learning disability but I have BPD, bipolar 2, suffer from severe anxiety and periods of depression,
Had 2 near fatal mixed overdoses and been in ICU 2 times for 2 months a time.
I guess I could be seen as an attention seeker as well but some of the people on this thread have been utterly disgusting about this girl.
I was just trying to frame her actions in a different way from the side of bpd sufferer but people just see us as attention seekers.

Yes, possibly she could, but maybe it would be paid for her initially because her having to pay by a certain date might help focus her mind. I wasn’t really talking about the finances of everything, just that you can offer choices but still try to ensure she follows the rules.

What can you do about a 'gap in service' where a whole host of providers wont accept her, there is no offer of a placement for her (and this is just one case that has come to light, this sort of thing is replicated to a lesser or greater degree up and down the country)