Thread 17: Starmer: Treading softly.

[DuncinToffee]

Lettuce pray

Keep it civil

Cat, dog, flowers tax much appreciated

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5257111-thread-16-starmer-mad-world?page=40

Ukraine is terrible. Not only does this deal look like total capitulation but it's the implication for NATO that really scares me.

We all know if this deal is signed then there will be an "election" in Ukraine with a friendly government for Putin and a critical minerals agreement for Trump.

European countries are being told in the clearest manner possible that they should be spending much more on defence. If I were an ex Soviet block country I would be terrified. Putin will want something in this deal about NATO expanding and recognition of Russia's legitimate sphere of influence.

https://bsky.app/profile/peterwalker99.bsky.social/post/3li4vmm3rws2v

Strong words from Keir Starmer in a call with Zelenskiy this morning:

• Reiterated "the UK’s concrete support for Ukraine, for as long as it’s needed".
• “The prime minister reiterated the UK’s commitment to Ukraine being on an irreversible path to Nato".
• "No talks about Ukraine, without Ukraine".

All this going on, but the most important thing is RR's CV and HBOS expenses.

I don't think the UK has ever looked more irrelevant.

NATO is underwritten by the US. Trump is clearly not going to do that, so we are doing what, exactly?

We hear constant criticism - about everything
but what is never given is a workable solution .
QT last night was very scary , comments from some of the panel and from some of the audience.
George Monbiot is generally very sound but even he didn't seem to say exactly how the UK could get to a position whereby we can offer safe passage from wherever the refugees are living.
T/hey can't easily go to their" Embassy" and ask to go somewhere safe.

George Monbiot 🤮

Can we have a derxa approved list of commentators?

He always seems pretty reasoned to me even when I disagree with him. What’s your violent objection @derxa ?

@DuncinToffee Not necessary, @derxa always has a "pop" at me , even if other posters mention the same names.
I have my opinion, they have theirs and polite discussion is no bad thing ever.

I’m everything he hates. Sheep farmer. He wants to do away with us. For most on here he’s some sort of guru but there’s a huge world outside of his mindset.

She has the same kind of reaction whenever I mention Lewis Goodall.

In terms of influence, it has been diminishing since the debacle of Suez in 1956.

I think you sound generally lovely. George not so much

Vance is very very right wing. This new administration clearly hates the EU too.

Most frightening is his reference to the enemy within.

This US administration is only going to offer bilateral deals with countries it likes. This post war multilateralism is over.

(Alleged) Threats to free speech are apparently more dangerous than Putin says Vance

Nearly three quarters of a century ago ?

It was Suez (long before I was born) that pushed the UK to Europe. It was clear the US was in no mood to assist the UK to keep it's empire.

Worth remembering that the UKs mantra

We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.

As that has been US policy since (checks notes) 1783

Really? Hates you? Wants to do away with you? Do you mean he’s vegan and encourages people to try it? That’s quite an extreme reaction if so.

And he includes safe zones outside clinics which perform abortions in his definition of threats to free speech.

He is project 2025.

Trump seems to "like" Starmer. Can't decide if that's a poison chalice or not.
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/14/starmer-takes-call-trump-meeting-envoy-mark-burnett-apprentice?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It’ll be helpful I’m sure @Spandauer
I’m getting less and less impressed (from a not massively high base) anyway, so I’ll focus on the practical advantages here!

To be fair, I had never heard of him, or heard him speak. If I had, then it hadn't registered. He just seemed to be well reasoned.

He's very clever, but he's also very dogmatic on the things he feels passionately about and that turns me off him. His heart is in the right place, but he's so militant at times that he's irritating.

I like him.

George Monibot was an amazing on QT might have been a year or so ago now do agree though he can be a bit much at times.