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Thread 17: Starmer: Treading softly.

1000 replies

DuncinToffee · 30/01/2025 17:47

Lettuce pray

Keep it civil

Cat, dog, flowers tax much appreciated Brew

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5257111-thread-16-starmer-mad-world?page=40

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71
PandoraSox · 09/02/2025 12:16

bombastix · 09/02/2025 12:10

@PandoraSox why the antipathy to Streeting? Not saying you are wrong to have this view btw. But curious. He's on a razor thin majority which explains some of his recent statements. Though some of them also make policy sense for the NHS.

On MPs chat - I suppose human nature being what it is, I would expect slagging off between party members. But doing the same about the general public is a no.

He has a history of really nasty tweets. There was a mad rumour about a pet shop, but I think that was a lot of nonsense. Other than that, there is not anything concrete I can point to, I just have a feeling about him. Plus he is Tory lite IMHO.

BIossomtoes · 09/02/2025 12:22

cardibach · 09/02/2025 11:54

I’ve warmed to Streeting. I think he’s a good communicator. I listened to him on James O’Brien’s Full Disclosure podcast and found it made me like him a lot more. If he’s still being vile to people under cover of WhatsApp etc, then he should go, of course.

I agree. I like Streeting very much on the basis of what I’ve seen of him to date.

Piggywaspushed · 09/02/2025 12:24

bombastix · 09/02/2025 12:10

@PandoraSox why the antipathy to Streeting? Not saying you are wrong to have this view btw. But curious. He's on a razor thin majority which explains some of his recent statements. Though some of them also make policy sense for the NHS.

On MPs chat - I suppose human nature being what it is, I would expect slagging off between party members. But doing the same about the general public is a no.

The various things on The Forde report were more than 'slagging off'. This may not have been Streeting.

ilovesooty · 09/02/2025 12:46

I think Streeting is a good communicator and competent, as well as ambitious (and that's not a criticism). I respect his rise from adversity and overcoming the barriers he's faced. However instinctively I'm not at all drawn to him as a personality, and I'm not sure why. I realise that isn't rational.

bombastix · 09/02/2025 12:56

Oh his ambitions are absolutely transparent and perhaps too obvious. And he can have a strident tone which is off putting.

But when I look at the competition Labour faces I am not sure that is necessarily bad.

Starmer is tough on his own party. But he needs to start getting tougher with Reform. The Conservatives are dead in the water. He minces Badenoch every week but she is no challenge at all. It's the narrative of Reform that will hurt Labour, not the next Lettuce.

cardibach · 09/02/2025 12:58

PandoraSox · 09/02/2025 12:16

He has a history of really nasty tweets. There was a mad rumour about a pet shop, but I think that was a lot of nonsense. Other than that, there is not anything concrete I can point to, I just have a feeling about him. Plus he is Tory lite IMHO.

Edited

Weren’t the tweets when he was quite young? Doesn’t make them nice, but maybe indicates he’s grown up - I wouldn’t like to be judged by some of the things I said when I was young (though nothing as unpleasant as his, I grant you). Have a listen to his Full Disclosure. He’s more left than I thought, but understands (and can articulate something useful about) working class Tories.

Zonder · 09/02/2025 13:43

That's good to know @cardibach . I'm going to have a listen.

SerendipityJane · 09/02/2025 14:01

Starmer is tough on his own party. But he needs to start getting tougher with Reform. The Conservatives are dead in the water. He minces Badenoch every week but she is no challenge at all. It's the narrative of Reform that will hurt Labour, not the next Lettuce.

It's possible that may happen without any need to interfere. Already I'm seeing headlines about Boris Johnson, the Tories and Farage and Reform, with those words close enough together to create an impression in a moron in a hurry.

There's a lot to unpick there, of course. Firstly the fact that despite having St. Kemi "leading" the Tories, Johnson is treated as their pater familias (see what I did there 😀). This looking past St. Kemi cannot be a casual mistake on the part of the political observers. It's a fascinating glimpse into the turbulent waters that are the politics of the posh.

Secondly, it rather assumes that Reform voters who turned away from the Tories are now somehow going to be thrilled that the party they abandoned has now turned up with it's new squeeze. Begging to be taken back and insisting "I've changed now babe, honestly". That rather overlooks the fact that the more tribally minded voter doesn't change allegiances at the drop of a hat (if they did, we wouldn't be in this mess). Although I don't know where a Tory->Reform voter who wanted to avoid voting for Tory+Reform would turn. What happened to the Social Democrats voters when the SDs merged with the Liberals ?

Thirdly it assumes that a Reform-Tory merger would be a meeting of equals. (Hence mentioning Johnson over Badenoch).

Finally, it conveniently forgets that Farage detests the Tories more than I do. Why in the name of all that is Musk would he take his foot of their throats now ? The worse they do, the better Reform does.

The only situation in which a Reform-Tory (yes, I have deliberately put them that way round) would make sense is if the Tories started polling better at the expense of Reform. However dead birds don't fall out of nests. Or fly.

bombastix · 09/02/2025 16:39

I think there is sod all chance of Johnson being part of a Reform Tory party.

Johnson and Farage really dislike each other. Johnson delivered a terrible Brexit deal.

Badenoch is just a fool. She doesn't understand what the job is. And no one is listening to her anyway

SerendipityJane · 09/02/2025 16:50

By the way, anyone else heard the news that Kemi Badenoch is so incompetent that she managed to completely and utterly fail to complete the paperwork required to become leader.

Ouch !

Until January 31st 2025, the Conservative Party leader was Rishi Sunak

I am guessing she just "doesn't do details".

It is yet to be seen if there are any legal implications. This could be fraud.

DuncinToffee · 09/02/2025 17:15

Ooh, we haven't had a misogynistic Angela Rayner bashing thread for a while, thought they were too busy fawning over the tangerine.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 09/02/2025 20:42

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/feb/09/labour-urged-to-defend-workers-rights-bill-as-poll-shows-huge-public-support

Labour urged to defend workers’ rights bill as poll shows huge public support

Even with Reform voters

OP posts:
PickAChew · 09/02/2025 20:52

DuncinToffee · 09/02/2025 20:42

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/feb/09/labour-urged-to-defend-workers-rights-bill-as-poll-shows-huge-public-support

Labour urged to defend workers’ rights bill as poll shows huge public support

Even with Reform voters

404 not found 😐

cakeorwine · 09/02/2025 21:28

Farage has been talking about improving productivity.

I wonder how he feels about worker's rights, employment law, hours worked etc?

bombastix · 09/02/2025 22:07

I would assume Farage will dodge anything to do with productivity or employment because he is probably anti minimum wage, anti any kind of in work benefits and would refuse access to benefits unless there was a direct insurance system.

Actual answers are like battery acid to him. Much like Brexit. He will pied piper all his voters and turn to take what little they had. My view of course.

PickAChew · 09/02/2025 23:56

cakeorwine · 09/02/2025 21:28

Farage has been talking about improving productivity.

I wonder how he feels about worker's rights, employment law, hours worked etc?

Employment law is for shirkers, I should imagine.

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/02/2025 00:13

Farage is anti-improving anything for the UK. He's made a career out of it.

itsgettingweird · 10/02/2025 08:05

Surely having employment law comes under human rights.

Braverman has advocated to remove them in this country.

I always say those who support her that idea don't really understand exactly^^ what that will mean.

I believe without a human rights law we'd have no maternity laws, no employment laws, no health rights, no rules on rents etc.

It's the overarching law that all the specific laws come from.

Llttledrummergirl · 10/02/2025 08:13

I don't think she's smart enough to understand this.

InMySpareTime · 10/02/2025 08:14

Is the logic that if we make British jobs so awful that foreigners refuse to do them, nobody will want to migrate here for a better life and it'll be awful British jobs for British people? Like the "hostile environment" nonsense?

I don't want to live in a hostile environment, I want to live in a country that offers a better life than whatever the world's migrants are leaving.

bombastix · 10/02/2025 08:34

Interestingly today I am attending a conference on economics and employment.

What is really staggering is how bad the UK is terms of productivity and educating its people. It is terrible. It's very good and world beating if you are in the top ten percent. But we haven't worked out or at least are very comfortable with having large amounts of the population not economically contributing.

I totally see why governments are so tempted by migration because it solves this issue temporarily. But socially it is underwriting a waste of human potential.

I want Labour to break this cycle. I want them to educate and support UK citizens into work and better education. Not underwrite the economy with increasing migration. Other countries do manage it. We need to do this too. Or we will be saying we are happy with large numbers of our population in poverty.

cakeorwine · 10/02/2025 11:37

How to tackle Reform

Paul Nowak, the TUC general secretary, said:

Reform is defying its own voters and constituents on workers’ rights. Reform MPs voted against the employment rights bill at every stage.
Nigel Farage and Reform aren’t on the side of working people – they’re on the side of bad bosses, zero hours contracts and fire and rehire.

Show people what they think about employment rights. They're coming for your holidays

bombastix · 10/02/2025 12:55

The great free trade agreement game is beginning it seems

www.politico.eu/article/justin-trudeaus-canada-push-uk-trade-deal-pierre-poilievre/

DuncinToffee · 10/02/2025 12:56

Government reshuffle:

Interesting detail is Douglas Alexander takes on Cabinet Office duties alongside his DBT ministerial role — a move that wasn't necessitated by Gwynne's sacking

Alexander previously worked in the Cabinet Office from 2002-2004 under Blair, when he oversaw govt's strategy unit

https://bsky.app/profile/josh-self.bsky.social/post/3lht2bwowrs24

Josh Self (@josh-self.bsky.social)

Government reshuffle: Interesting detail is Douglas Alexander takes on Cabinet Office duties alongside his DBT ministerial role — a move that wasn't necessitated by Gwynne's sacking Alexander previously worked in the Cabinet Office from 2002-2004 und...

https://bsky.app/profile/josh-self.bsky.social/post/3lht2bwowrs24

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