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Trump+Musk: Folie à Deux - Trump thread #137

1000 replies

Spandauer · 22/01/2025 20:37

The clock is already ticking and he's an old man. Mid-terms: November 3, 2026

Thanks to @AcrossThePond55 for the thread title.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5206120-the-grown-ups-have-left-the-building-trump-thread-136

Trump+Musk: Folie à Deux - Trump thread #137
OP posts:
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93
Mielikki · 12/02/2025 09:46

tobee · 12/02/2025 01:32

Please can I ask 2 questions? (One might be easier to answer than the other)

  1. is there any limit to Trump's executive orders? Can he do as many and for as long as he wants throughout his presidency? And no one can stop them?

  2. is there any chance that other countries will push back on Trump and for that push back to be substantive and lasting? Trump is used to, and delights in, people standing against him because they always fold sooner or later

To answer question 1, no there is no limit on EOs, he can make as many as he wants and they can be as mad as he wants. The way the system works is that he can make EOs and then it is up to others to challenge them in the courts - and of course as courts are highly politicised in the US (especially the supreme court), there is a good chance that blatantly unlawful/unconstitutional EOs will be waved through - and even if the courts do rule an EO to be unlawful, he can just ignore the court ruling with no consequence.

There is no robust system of judicial reviews as we have, and the power to issue EOs goes far beyond our equivalent (statutory instruments) which must be backed by existing legislation.

Mielikki · 12/02/2025 09:48

Oh, and to answer your 2nd question, the only countries that will push back are China and (possibly) the EU. Everyone else will just be trying to get through the next 4 years unscathed.

SerendipityJane · 12/02/2025 10:09

Secondly, nothing and no one can stop Trump.

When the US emerges from this - even if it takes a century - the second amendment will be ripped from the new constitution. It's turned out to be a total and utter crock (c.f. the "mysterious powers of the monarch" in the UK that also turned out to be an utter crock). I don't advocate violence. However the US population has been duped for centuries with the fiction that allowed an armed citizenry is a guarantee against tyranny. And it's sad that so many innocent children have had to die in the maintenance of that fairy story.

user22446688 · 12/02/2025 10:11

cakeorwine · 12/02/2025 07:57

I was reading a book about "How people's minds change" and one of the subjects was about leaving cults.

It took someone who was in a cult to be finally shocked about something that the cult did to get them to leave and to have a different perspective.

I wonder if that appearance with Musk will "shock" people in the cult.

The problem is that the vast majority of the cult will never see it. If they're watching Fox or getting their news via X or social media, they'll never know what's happening. They'll just gobble up the lies about everything being the fault of DEI and Biden. I think at this point they would need actual de-programming to get through.

Igotjelly · 12/02/2025 10:13

SerendipityJane · 12/02/2025 10:09

Secondly, nothing and no one can stop Trump.

When the US emerges from this - even if it takes a century - the second amendment will be ripped from the new constitution. It's turned out to be a total and utter crock (c.f. the "mysterious powers of the monarch" in the UK that also turned out to be an utter crock). I don't advocate violence. However the US population has been duped for centuries with the fiction that allowed an armed citizenry is a guarantee against tyranny. And it's sad that so many innocent children have had to die in the maintenance of that fairy story.

I genuinely think it’s going to be a long dark time before the US emerges from this and I’m not sure it will ever look the same. Gone are the days of it being the great beacon of democracy.

SerendipityJane · 12/02/2025 10:34

Igotjelly · 12/02/2025 10:13

I genuinely think it’s going to be a long dark time before the US emerges from this and I’m not sure it will ever look the same. Gone are the days of it being the great beacon of democracy.

After Nero, the Empire fell into convulsions of instability - four emperors in a year (puts Tory party infighting into perspective).

I am sure we'd all like to think that assassinations and murders and general bad behaviour are all things "we used to do". Personally I am less sure. Humans are humans.

I think it's a waste of time now looking outside the Trump circle now. Congress is sidelined and currently arguing over the font and spacing on the "one beautiful bill" so they're useless. The judiciary will do it's best until it's just ignored. All we are really waiting for now is some sort of whacky attempt to attack the government and with no hint of irony Trump will declare "insurrection*" and magic up some powers to allow him to "lock the bad guys up". The only question is will it be a Dutch communist with a box of matches outside the Capitol ?

*If he declares "It's infamy - they have it infamy" then I will have a lot of back-believing in God to do.

cakeorwine · 12/02/2025 10:34

Spandauer · 12/02/2025 08:48

Doesn't like the double flush.

Doesn't he like new bulbs?

SerendipityJane · 12/02/2025 11:11

As with the whole plastic straw fiasco.

If the performance of the green alternative isn't as good as the existing product, then it's not going to fly. And trying to dupe the masses by making the old illegal or the new mandatory isn't really going to fly in market economy.

Water saving toilets are great - until you discover that in the wild they need 2 flushes to achieve the same performance as what they replaced.

The pisspoor performance of energy-saving (CFL) bulbs was so widely acknowledged, it became a trope in several stand up routines.

Ultimately the truth is the green lobby were well captured by big business early on. As soon as someone saw a consumer pay more for "organic" food, they realised that they could fleece the public again in the name of "the environment, stupid".

Now much as I detest paper straws, it wouldn't drive me to vote for a fascist cunt like Trump. But with every passing day, I realise that I'm in a shrinking minority.

EVs are the latest in that line.

cakeorwine · 12/02/2025 11:24

SerendipityJane · 12/02/2025 11:11

As with the whole plastic straw fiasco.

If the performance of the green alternative isn't as good as the existing product, then it's not going to fly. And trying to dupe the masses by making the old illegal or the new mandatory isn't really going to fly in market economy.

Water saving toilets are great - until you discover that in the wild they need 2 flushes to achieve the same performance as what they replaced.

The pisspoor performance of energy-saving (CFL) bulbs was so widely acknowledged, it became a trope in several stand up routines.

Ultimately the truth is the green lobby were well captured by big business early on. As soon as someone saw a consumer pay more for "organic" food, they realised that they could fleece the public again in the name of "the environment, stupid".

Now much as I detest paper straws, it wouldn't drive me to vote for a fascist cunt like Trump. But with every passing day, I realise that I'm in a shrinking minority.

EVs are the latest in that line.

A 100 Watt lightbulb costs 2.5 p an hour to run.

That can quickly add up. It's also a lot of wasted energy as heat. Why pay money to heat up the air?

cakeorwine · 12/02/2025 11:26

But we have the same when people complain about energy efficiency - and not understanding basic physics. People don't understand that high wattage does not necessarily mean all that energy is going to actually be used doing the useful work.

SerendipityJane · 12/02/2025 12:01

cakeorwine · 12/02/2025 11:26

But we have the same when people complain about energy efficiency - and not understanding basic physics. People don't understand that high wattage does not necessarily mean all that energy is going to actually be used doing the useful work.

You don't have it both ways. If the population don't really grasp physics (and believe me, they don't) then they will not understand why they have to put up with a shit light bulb that cost an arm and a leg when they could have had a good ol' fashioned one like Ma had for a fraction that cost that actually worked.

That is why people pretty soon learned (arguably were trained) that anything "green" is axiomatically shit.

There is a whole theory about immediacy of consequences and how it affects human thinking. We haven't evolved beyond the stage where as individuals we need to worry about our next meal much much more than we need to worry about whether that tree will have enough fruit for next week. If you want a society to plan for the future you either have to force it through by dictatorship or help it through with education. Dictatorships are inefficient and education costs money. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

I am a big fan of the idea that nothing is truly useless. Even astrology, May be complete and utter bollocks, but it's not useless. It can be used.

With that in mind, even the horrors of war and the ordeals of history, no matter how depraved, have a utility. Who knows, it may be that completely by accident, Trump and his not-so-merry (they really are humorless. That should have warned America long ago) band of brigands might cause a shift in the world order that actually benefits mankind quicker than if we had to start from scratch. Which will will assuredly have to do if any of those nukes goes off. Whether by design or accident.

I repeat my point from before. When stand up comics (plural) can make jokes about how shit the brave new world of energy saving lightbulbs is, then you, my green friend, have lost the hearts and minds.

And the passage of time has proved the cynics to be absolutely spot on. All this greeny bollocks is just that. An excuse for the state to fleece the public in the name of "the good" whilst totally an utterly and very publicly not giving a shit. And the second the public realised it was yet another "do as we say, not as we do" area of life, they switched off. I know I did.

The TL;DR is that mixed in with the MAGA lunatics there will have been enough low energy thinkers (see what I did there ?) who heard the bit about light bulbs, or toilet flushes or vacuum cleaners and thought "That guy is making sense" and put their "X" accordingly. Not knowing what the full implications were.

tobee · 12/02/2025 15:13

Thank you @Mielikki

DuncinToffee · 12/02/2025 15:16

Hegseth

"The United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome for a negotiated settlement."

He also added that Ukraine will not return to the 1991 borders

Zoopet · 12/02/2025 15:41

I am beyond depressed reading about Trump's madness.🤢

Igotjelly · 12/02/2025 15:58

Zoopet · 12/02/2025 15:41

I am beyond depressed reading about Trump's madness.🤢

I’m actually worried I’m becoming desensitised already!

tobee · 12/02/2025 17:01

Everything that people foretold seems to be coming to pass! And more so with annexation of countries and turning them into real estate, plundering their assets.

That cunt Johnson laughed at people worrying about a second Trump term. What does the fucker say about Trump's plans for Russia/Ukraine which the former PM champions so much?

Eyesopenwideawake · 12/02/2025 17:55

Trump is about to throw Ukraine under the bus.

I really need a new set of words to describe how I feel about him. A cunt is warm and deep so that doesn't work. A prick has a use and can give great pleasure.

Ideas??

Igotjelly · 12/02/2025 17:59

The optics of Trump going to Moscow to essentially bend the knee to Putin is sickening.

SerendipityJane · 12/02/2025 18:01

Igotjelly · 12/02/2025 17:59

The optics of Trump going to Moscow to essentially bend the knee to Putin is sickening.

I am surprised he's that confident to leave the US. You would be amazed how many overseas trips are the starting gun for a defenestration

Llttledrummergirl · 12/02/2025 18:03

I have no words for the backroom deal. Weak, treacherous worm might be apt.

Igotjelly · 12/02/2025 18:06

He’s essentially signing Ukraine’s death warrant and telling Putin he can do what he wants to Europe.

DuncinToffee · 12/02/2025 18:09

Eyesopenwideawake · 12/02/2025 17:55

Trump is about to throw Ukraine under the bus.

I really need a new set of words to describe how I feel about him. A cunt is warm and deep so that doesn't work. A prick has a use and can give great pleasure.

Ideas??

Mango Mussolini?

DuncinToffee · 12/02/2025 18:10

His truth social statement is in this tweet

https://bsky.app/profile/carolecadwalla.bsky.social/post/3lhyq2rh7nk24

Spandauer · 12/02/2025 18:11

As Nate White said:
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.

White's full description of Trump from 2020 (?) narrated here:

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