Pronouns at work/being gender critical at work etc

[Leafstamp]

If you are a woman and have your pronouns in your email signature at work, can I ask why?

If you haven't given it much thought, are you open to being persuaded that, albeit in a small way, this practice of declaring pronouns is contributing to a movement that harms women, children and LGB people?

Equally, if you are already clued up on this and consider yourself a sex realist/gender critical are you able to be open about this at work and challenge instances were gender identity ideology is being unduly promoted? Do you find that others agree with you?

I work in a small company where none of this goes on, so I am curious.

That falls down in environments where Dr and Prof are common.

As usual, no actual argument, just unjustified mud slinging.

I don’t think you know what a handmaid is. Don’t @ me in response as I’m hiding this thread, but seriously, wtf.

I do. Hide away. Can’t argue with stupid.

But why use she/her/hers or other solipsistic bollocks? Why not (female) after the name, or use a sex based honorific?

Lots of people at my organisation do it, male and female. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't do it simply because I feel it's obvious I'm a woman. If anyone wants to double check what my pronouns are, I'll tell them. I won't be offended.

Does your ‘very inclusive large business’ not know that women are generally disadvantaged in the workplace by virtue of being female, and one way of reducing this is to not signal one’s sex in correspondence? Also, does it encourage people to also add their race / ethnicity / age / religion / disability status and so on in their email signatures? I’m guessing it does not.
So in reality, adding pronouns in email signatures is just virtue signalling, and claiming that it’s one way of being an ally is actually saying to its employees ‘don’t believe your eyes, if Joseph in accounts wants you to believe he’s now Joanne, you must agree’.

@Leafstamp i think this means they don’t have one 😂

Men have always wanted to fuck other men. In some cultures, they have wanted to fuck other men without having to admit even to themselves that they are engaging in homosexual acts. "Third genders" for gay receptive men are a mechanism by which men can fuck other men without having to own that "gay" or "bisexual" label, because they claim that the receptive man isn't a man. Third genders for women are much rarer than third genders for men, because very few societies will allow women to opt-out of wifehood and motherhood.

To whom are you addressing this snarky comment?

Wow.

Declared pronouns are part of a belief system that says the difference between men and women is in how we think not the sex of our bodies.

You may not think endorsing a sexist belief system is harmful but I certainly do.

Genderism is harmful to women especially (in the original sex based meaning) in several ways:

1. It obscures the fact that the history of sexism and misogyny that women have faced was inflicted on us because of our sex not because of anything we may have done, or because of how we may have thought or felt, and regardless of our personal talents and abilities, and was not inflicted on men, not because anything they may have done, or how those men may have thought or felt, or their personal talents and abilities, but because their sex was male
2. It takes away the language we need to understand and explain that sexism and misogyny is still inflicted on female people because of our sex, and because of this we have different outcomes to men that we are not in control of
3. It takes away the single-sex provisions that were created to help us survive the sex-based abuse and marginalisation that we face because of our sex and makes them over to anyone who chooses to declare they use the pronouns She/Her
4. It legimitises the sexist and misogynist myths that women are less suited than men to activities that happen in our culture to confer power, status and agency, and more suited than men to activities that are low power, low status and low income, making many women dependant on the goodwill of men

Declaring pronouns in a signature declares your alignment to a sexist movement. It is as abhorrent as including a racist or ablist slogan and the sooner people understand this and realise what they are really saying when they thnk they are just being inclusive the better.

And your lack of ability to view the whole picture of Gender Ideology shows a distinct lack of intelligent thought.
Pronouns in signatures haven’t just come about by chance. It’s yet another concerted effort by TRAs to swamp the workplace with their ideology.
Be kind - add pronouns
Be an ally - add pronouns
Ignore reality - add pronouns

It’s almost universally accepted that we can identify someone’s sex when we see / hear them in person. Identity politics has a lot to answer for.

I do as in RL I have a unisex name.

Actually my work does a lot for the betterment of women - it has done so much for women in every stage of life e.g. pregnancy, menopause, pushing for women to be better represented at higher levels. As for ethnicity/disabilities - again you're wrong. They do advocate for people to be open about this and whilst they don't ask you to necessarily put it in your email description, they very much encourage you to be open about it and ensure you are supported again to be represented in higher positions of power.

The idea the women are being disadvantaged by gender affirming care/policies is nonsense perpetuated by those who want to distract from the main issues in society. You can trace gender representation outside of a binary system all the way back to 2000BC.

Why draw attention to the fact you’re female (assuming you are)?

It’s fairly likely to disadvantage you. Or certainly not give you an advantage.

This!! I am gender critical and known to be. I would still respect people's request to use their ridiculous pronoun while inside I'm making notes I'm never going to support you in whatever ways, you attention seeking twat.

I don't have my pronouns in my signature but my boss does and im waiting for the conversation. My pronouns are obvious from my name, so....

You can trace gender representation outside of a binary system all the way back to 2000BC.

What do you even mean by this @Nn9011 ?

Of course there have always been feminine men and masculine women. But there have only ever been two sexes and those two categories matter in certain circumstances.

Conflating sex with gender or ‘gender representation’ is unhelpful.

Yep, thousands of women and girls murdered, abused, raped by actual men and you’re focussing on actually a tiny tiny minority. I guess you’ll be cheering Trump eh.

I don't have my pronouns in mine, as.our company hasn't made it obligatory, but I also don't agree at all that email signatures contribute to a harming movement. Focus definitely in the wrong place here.

I think LinkedIn have removed pronouns from profiles unless you go into more specific settings.

As someone else said, it can be a useful guide to people's [lack of] judgment.

I mean I don't think you'll win most people over to your cause with those types of comments.

I haven't said sex and gender are the same at all because factually it isn't true. What I mean is that in societies all around the world and as far back in history as 2000BC we can find evidence of societies having more than 2 genders, usually it's a 3rd non binary type role.
As for sex, when we dumb it down sure most people are XX or XY but there are lots of different chromosome variations and conditions that mean not everyone fits neatly into these categories. It makes it easier in society to create binary, black and white categories because it's human nature to put people into boxes but it's just not reality.

Incorrect.

• Lampshading women's sex will ensure that Sam the server administrator gets talked down to by the male staff at her vendor's technical support desk, whereas they previously thought that she was Samuel. See also: Dame Stephanie "Steve" Shirley.
• Coercing a disclosure from a trans person who is closeted could harm them. I work in an environment with a lot of Saudi staff. They live together in shared flats, go to mosque together, and their families often know each other. If one of those men was gender dysphoric and was asked for his preferred pronouns, he would have to lie about his true preference or come out to his family and religious community. The case of Eden Knight indicates what might happen after that.
• It's not right to coerce a disclosure from someone who is in the early stages of navigating gender dysphoria and has not decided if or when to transition.
• It's not right to coerce a gender critical colleague into pretending adherence to a belief that they don't have. Pronoun declarations indicate a belief in gender identity.

I don’t really get why preferred pronouns on your email sig signals support for or could potentially ‘out’ a trans person. If a person is called e.g. Will or Tom and is a female/signifies they want to be referred to as she/her, I’d just assume it was a nickname or a short form of e.g. Wilhelmina or Thomasina. Wouldn’t the majority of trans people have also changed their name to one not associated with their sex? In which case Belinda (she/her) - whether written by a male or a female - has the same effect as just Belinda.

I don’t know, I have so many tasks to do at work (admittedly numbers/spreadsheet based so maybe it matters less), I don’t really have time to think about whether faceless colleagues/associates are/think of themselves as men or women or neither. I’d also like it to be an implicit assumption that I wouldn’t discriminate or judge someone about any of their characteristics - sex, race, religion etc. I’m not sure why I need to announce this, or why we’re only showing support to lgbtq community in email sigs and not other oppressed/disadvantaged groups (I suspect because it’s easier than actually working to make change). Surely there should be multiple statements around religion, disability etc etc if we want our email signatures to be a message to others about how we feel about others.