Pronouns at work/being gender critical at work etc

[Leafstamp]

If you are a woman and have your pronouns in your email signature at work, can I ask why?

If you haven't given it much thought, are you open to being persuaded that, albeit in a small way, this practice of declaring pronouns is contributing to a movement that harms women, children and LGB people?

Equally, if you are already clued up on this and consider yourself a sex realist/gender critical are you able to be open about this at work and challenge instances were gender identity ideology is being unduly promoted? Do you find that others agree with you?

I work in a small company where none of this goes on, so I am curious.

Interestingly do you save the same judgement for people who use ms? Somehow I imagine not.

It's totally different.
'Mr' does not denote whether a man is single/married or not, 'Miss' and 'Mrs' does, and this can get women unwanted attention. So Ms is affording women the same privacy as men.

I don't think 'nuance' is your strong point though. In my opinion.

Luckily I don't give two shiny shits what you think.

and there we have it.

And yet you replied to me since then.

I don't know whether any particular person with pronouns in their email is going to be an "it's ma'am" type or not. But their pronoun declaration tells me that they might be. They are like the M&Ms in the bowl.

And of course regardless of whether someone has an attitude of forgiving genuine mistakes or going full on "it's Ma'am", if they believe he and she pronouns should label something about a person's mind rather than their body, they are certainly sexist.

A mistake, as it was for once on a relevant topic and not about this video that appears to be the centre of your existence.

Indeed.

Are you and the other poster an echo chamber?

This conversation is about whether you use pronouns in emails. If you work in a place where someone would scream and shout at you if you didn't use the right pronoun in an email then I'm sure there are procedures in place.

It's not the video, but the behaviour shown in it, that concerns me. The video is evidence to disprove the "it never happens" claims.

I'm autistic. I'm all about evidencing claims.

And if you'd my post properly before jumping to conclusions, you'd see that it explcitly wasn't about how someone may or may not react in the event of a genuine mistake, it was about the sexism of the practice in general.

The kind of person who screams and shouts will also complain to line managers and HR. These are not hard concepts to understand.

The kind of person who screams and shouts over genuine mistakes even when the mistaken person is profusely apologising will complain to HR and line managers over genuine mistakes.

Even if the mistaken person is exonerated, they still endure the stress of that process and uncertainty of outcome. Ever heard the phrase "the process is the punishment?

My eyes see "male" and I struggle to lie. I say "him" because I forgot or the evidence of my eyes overruled the memory of seeing "she/her" in the email or the ability to lie failed me in that moment. I get complained about for "misgendering". I am scared of disciplinary action.

This is not hard to understand.

Are you able to give me lived experience of this that doesn't involve your friend google in America?

Nobody said it never happens. People gave their own lived experience in which it hasn't.

You are just playing one permanent 'gotcha'. Which isn't helpful. But here I am, drawn in again by your baiting.

Then why the reference to the video? Why no understanding for the many people who don't react badly to being misgendered? If you can use that person as a card, you can also acknowledge that there are lots of people who don't behave like that.

Fwiw, in the people that use pronouns at my work, of which I am not one, all of them identify as their biological sex. I'd imagine many workplaces are similar. Now I'm sure that will cause another gotcha, but it makes the video as irrelevant as it was when it was posted.

Luna Spain isn't American. He was a barista in Southampton.

It doesn't need to happen to me yet for me to be scared of it. I've never been subject to a house burglary: should I stop worrying about burglary and leave my doors unlocked?

I work in a very woke HE workplace with vocal activist staff all over the campus and very vocal activist students. It's probably a matter of "when".

Think of how Kathleen Stock was treated. I work somewhere like that.

You are being ableist by accusing me of baiting. I am autistic and trying to understand you and trying to communicate in a way that allows you to understand me. I am not baiting.

Okay, I'm really ceasing engaging now. I don't understand you and you don't understand me. That's fine.

Why the reference to the video? To specifically draw a line between the in flight discussion on the thread about how someone may or may not react to being misgendered and the point that I wanted to make, which is that for me the issue is the fundamental sexism of the practice not the risk of a bad reaction.

And to your second point, it is equally sexist whether the person using pronouns identifies as trans or not, or even whether they intend to be sexist or not, because it is a practice that arose out of the sexist idea that the defining differences between men and women are mental rather than physical. The story that it's done to help with unfamilar names in global companies was added after the fact.

OK.