Thread 16 Starmer - Mad World

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5251589-thread-15-starmer-nolite-te-bastardes-carborundorum?page=40&reply=141533067

The US has or did indicate concessions on food standards for certain sectors.

On pharmaceuticals, we don't have to offer that as a concession.

There is enough mutual economic interest to do a deal. The reason we don't have one is not because of the above. It's because Joe Biden came in.

The EU will take forever to get a reasonable deal. That's not bespoke to us. It's built in. Their deals take years. What signs do they have that they could act quickly, which is absolutely needed? Btw that's an overall problem for them, again, not just us.

Rachel Reeves came back with 600 million investment. That is peanuts.

We need to move quickly. And get real. Trump means deals. The one thing that the UK does have in its favour is that it is geared up to do them.

Absolute rubbish... you sound like Reform voter.

It's my view. Joe Biden indicated no negotiations with us. Previously, we were negotiating.

The EU has take over a decade to reach agreements with Switzerland and Mercusor.

The US publicly indicated concessions in chicken and beef a few months ago.

These are facts.

Saying I sound like a Reform voter is really cheap. Facts are for lefties.

Actually it was Obama who said the UK would be at the back of the queue, Trump did nothing to change that.

Did everyone miss that we entered negotiations with the US in 2018?

Sorry guys but a little disappointed. I'm not fibbing on this.

The UK and US did negotiate until Joe Biden came in. Negotiations were then suspended.

The UK did not make any concessions on food re chicken and beef. It said it wanted to maintain its standards.

Biden was a lot more friendly to Europe/UK than Trump is.

So we had 2 years to do a deal with Trump, yet failed to achieve anything at all.

Like i said, he will do a deal IF we are the ones doing the conceding ie open up our markets... whilst theirs remain closed....which will also mean closing them to the EU.

Anyway, thats my last post on this, as i don't feel its within the spirit of thread, plenty of other threads on Trump etc

An oldie goldie

General election 2019: UK-US trade deal - what do the leaked documents show?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50572502

I've just pointed out some facts.

Joe Biden did not offer us any trade deals. Trump was prepared to talk. And I think you will find Starmer says yes. Because our other allies in the EU are too slow and will condition the deal on free movement or similar which is politically totally unpalatable to Starmer.

Ok, I stand corrected on farming -

However, leading trade and industry figures in the US now say that stumbling block could be removed by only allowing meat produced to existing UK standards to enter the country without tariffs. They say the market for such meat has flourished in the US since the issue of a post-Brexit trade deal was first raised.
British ministers have only ruled out any future deal that would undermine British food standards. Michael Froman, the US trade representative under Barack Obama from 2013 to 2017, said the incoming administration was likely to concentrate on China and tariffs. However, in terms of a UK deal, he said “much has changed since the old days of battles over chlorinated chicken and hormone-fed beef”.
“The US now has sizeable markets for hormone and chemical-free poultry and beef, and it is at least possible there could be a compromise on certain longstanding issues,” he said. “If the UK is serious about...

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/14/us-meat-trump-uk-trade-deal-chlorinated-chicken-hormone-beef
Although I note the NFU concerns referenced towards the end of the article and agree with them.

Will be interested to see what is on offer.

Not sure we can seriously complain about how slow the EU is to ratify deals given we don't seem to have made much progress ourselves.

Labour's stance on the EU is infuriating

It certainly is. Always has been though.

What is happening in the German election? Could that have any bearing at all on deals with the EU?

Yes totally unfathomable... but so much Labour are doing or rather not, is very odd, the Social Care inquiry, reporting in 3 years is perhaps the oddest.

But we shall see, the EU 'deal is up for negotiation this year isn't it?

My prediction is that there will be a rush to deal with the US; countries seeking tariff protection via free trade agreements.

The UK is a trade newbie. But it has actually secured more trade agreements than the EU did in the last five years. My view is based on what the EU actually do, not as I would like them to be. They are slow. They condition their offers salami style. It will take forever.

Obviously I'd like them to be otherwise. But it has taken them over 127 rounds of negotiations to agree a deal with Switzerland who are an economy with common standards. It is not a fantastic performance in an unstable world where a lot of ability is going to needed, imo. It's a strategy based on stability where you have the time over decades.

https://yougov.co.uk/international/articles/51394-first-yougov-mrp-model-of-the-2025-german-election-shows-gains-for-right

Am I reading this right? Former East is Far Right now?

Exactly. Thank you.

Anyway, thats my last post on this, as i don't feel its within the spirit of thread, plenty of other threads on Trump etc

Totally agree. There are plenty of Brexit threads too!

I don't know if it's me, but the tone of these threads has somehow changed a lot in the last week or so. Not for the better, I'm sad to say.

I do agree with this, though.

Not just you @PandoraSox.

I think the CDU in Germany (centre right) will be just as scared of the Far Right gaining more traction as anyone else should be. I think EU deals are to be had if the electorate realises it means direct investment into their communities. I think the far right is gaining traction in the most deprived communities and that is an urgency we need to do deal with. I don’t understand why Labour is not going all out on investment into poorer areas in the UK, as the main priority. I know there is no money, but I think we need domestic growth first and foremost.

It's probably a reflection of the current mood all around us, in parts at least. MN has been weird.

Maybe. I hope we can get back to the more friendly feel of our discussions and disagreements.

How to stop the far right gaining traction would be an good subject for a thread. I mean that seriously. It would be really interesting to see the general reaction on MN, given how odd it is at the moment.