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Original poster

I'm not good at saying no, how do I approach this and keep my job?

110 replies

MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 10:35

I have been doing my job for 6 years. I am a PA for an adult disabled client. I work for them 3 days a week and I work on a self employed basis (at their insistence).

The job was advertised with a car to take my client out and about. My client has a mobility vehicle which I have always used to drive them to their appointments, sports and social clubs and when we go out shopping etc.

My client usually receives a new car every 3 years and their current one is up for renewal in April, they decided around 6 months ago they will not renew the contract in April as they want the money in their pocket, fair enough, I have no issue with that.

The problem is that for the last few months they and their mother (who is heavily involved in their lives) keep asking me what will happen when they give up their mobility car and how will we get about. I have replied saying we can get the bus or a taxi to our destinations, the reply to this is always a "Mmmm?"or a "Oh, ok".

Anyhow, it transpires that they want me to use my car, several times now the mother has asked if I can use my car once the contact ends. I have always replied that it's not big enough (Fiat 500) to get the wheelchair in but now she has come up with the idea that my client can use their sticks which tbh will make getting out and about quite tricky and restrict the places we can go.

Regardless if they can use their sticks or not, the truth is that I don't want to use my car, it's 14 years old and has 100,000 miles on the clock, I only use it to and from work and I don't want to put any mileage on it. The mother seems to think simply paying me mileage will suffice and when I told her a few weeks ago that I really don't want to put extra mileage on etc she has been really off with me since. I am getting a bit fed up, the job was never advertised as needing to use my own car and I have never in all the time I have worked for them offered up my car as part of the service. I feel they already take the piss out of me for other things at times and I do not want to be pushed into using my own car just because they want to save themselves some extra money.

But I am crap at saying no and sticking to it, especially when they create such an atmosphere over it all.

How do I continue sticking to no and hope they get the message without feeling awful about it and without them getting funny about it as they seem to be taking it personally.

OP posts:
YouveGotAFastCar · 14/01/2025 10:38

Well from their perspective, if you use your car, they'll have more money in their pockets... so you can see why they're keen.

From yours, your car isn't big enough, and already has a lot of miles on it, plus it's not something you want to do.

So you just politely stick to your guns. Start talking about what happens in April - bring round a bus schedule to put on the fridge, talk about the cost changes, etc. It's fait accompli; really, because you are not using your car - so they need to either accept that it'll be buses and taxis, or review their decision to end their Motability car.

MaggieBsBoat · 14/01/2025 10:38

Honestly, I think you just need to practise your no technique. That’s the only way. You will feel bad but the are being CFers and you know this. This is good practise for you. Trust me. Saying no is a life skill.

Original poster
MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 10:40

Thank you, I do need to start practising my assertiveness, I know but they make me feel as though I am been unreasonable.

OP posts:
devildeepbluesea · 14/01/2025 10:40

You should really just say no.
But you could say your insurance won’t cover it.

Original poster
MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 10:41

devildeepbluesea · 14/01/2025 10:40

You should really just say no.
But you could say your insurance won’t cover it.

I did try that but the father said they would cover any extra on my insurance!

OP posts:
WongKarWhy · 14/01/2025 10:43

You just need to be firm and say look, this is t going to happen no matter how many times you ask or how many mitigations you offer. They sound like CFs and the only way to shut them down is to be firm and direct.

mumonthehill · 14/01/2025 10:48

As a self employed then you may need more than business cover as the risks of transporting your client are high. You would need to risk assess using a form, your client using your car, as there is a higher risk of falls as they are not in their chair, do you have the appropriate manual handling training that support them to get in and out. Do they realise that if there is a fall you cannot help them get up etc. i would just say no and begin to look for other work just in case.

Original poster
MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 10:52

They can be CF's, a few years ago I was considering getting a SUV and the first thing they said was "Great, I can give up my car then".

They also won't pay me for driving the mobility car back from my client's house to the parents (mobility car is kept at parents house). I am stuck in rush hour traffic every week and that equates to at least an hour per week of my time stuck in their car.

OP posts:
TonerNeedsReplacing · 14/01/2025 10:54

Sounds like it is time to look for alternative work tbh.

CornishPorsche · 14/01/2025 10:56

MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 10:52

They can be CF's, a few years ago I was considering getting a SUV and the first thing they said was "Great, I can give up my car then".

They also won't pay me for driving the mobility car back from my client's house to the parents (mobility car is kept at parents house). I am stuck in rush hour traffic every week and that equates to at least an hour per week of my time stuck in their car.

If you're truly SE, you set the terms of employment.

You could use this as an opportunity to renegotiate the whole agreement - pay, hours, use of a vehicle of any type or ownership...

What would you do if the job was pulled? Could you walk away and find another client?

MrsMoastyToasty · 14/01/2025 10:57

They need to pay for

Insurance
Fuel
Wear and tear

They might reconsider ...

TetHouse · 14/01/2025 10:59

MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 10:52

They can be CF's, a few years ago I was considering getting a SUV and the first thing they said was "Great, I can give up my car then".

They also won't pay me for driving the mobility car back from my client's house to the parents (mobility car is kept at parents house). I am stuck in rush hour traffic every week and that equates to at least an hour per week of my time stuck in their car.

Well, there’s clearly an existing track record of them exploiting you and you letting them, then, so you can see why they think you’ll give in. Time to start asserting boundaries. And possibly looking for a new job. If they need someone who is prepared to use their own car, then their needs have changed. Yours haven’t.

shellyleppard · 14/01/2025 11:00

I think you need business class insurance if taking a client out?? I could be wrong on this though. Just say you aren't prepared to use your car due to its age and size. Be strong, I know its difficult with private clients. They can be a bit pushy at times

Gnope · 14/01/2025 11:01

They are having a laugh. You probably shouldn’t be self-employed either, unless you set your own hours and so on. They are avoiding paying your pension contributions and any potential redundancy pay by insisting you are self employed. Depending on the nature of your work it may be against HMRC rules.

CFs will always make you feel like you’re the one being unreasonable. You need to decide for yourself what is right and then try to create a certainty in your mind, like a wall that can’t be knocked down.

Original poster
MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 11:01

mumonthehill · 14/01/2025 10:48

As a self employed then you may need more than business cover as the risks of transporting your client are high. You would need to risk assess using a form, your client using your car, as there is a higher risk of falls as they are not in their chair, do you have the appropriate manual handling training that support them to get in and out. Do they realise that if there is a fall you cannot help them get up etc. i would just say no and begin to look for other work just in case.

I am insured and that's about it tbh. They have used PA's for around 20 years and have never asked any of them to attend manual handling courses.

OP posts:
CoffeeBeansGalore · 14/01/2025 11:03

Next time they start up with well you could use your car to take . . .

Look, much as I enjoy working with (person) I have said no I will not be using my car for your benefit. That is not going to change so please stop asking. If this is a dealbreaker for you then let me know so I can look for another job.

And having just seen your update, look for another job. Why can't they collect the car to take to theirs if that's where it has to be kept? How many hours are you working for free? Because if they are not paying you for this time, that's what you are doing.

Original poster
MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 11:06

CornishPorsche · 14/01/2025 10:56

If you're truly SE, you set the terms of employment.

You could use this as an opportunity to renegotiate the whole agreement - pay, hours, use of a vehicle of any type or ownership...

What would you do if the job was pulled? Could you walk away and find another client?

Show quote history

I was a bit green when I started I suppose. I went straight into it from being a SAHP for many years and I also care for my mum who has dementia. I knew very little about being self employed, they offered me the job but only on a SE basis, they offered the rate of pay rather than me telling them what I charge and then there was insurance etc on top which I have to pay.

In retrospect I should have done things differently but I had few options open at the time as I was fresh from being at home for so long.

OP posts:
Schoolchoicesucks · 14/01/2025 11:07

I think you have posted about them before - the travel time dropping the car around.

If you don't want to use your car to drive them around, then stick to that. It's a perfectly reasonable boundary.

Unfortunately if they want a carer with own car to drive them around, they may decide to hire someone else.

You have been accommodating and made suggestions for how you will support them to get around given their decision not to renew their lease.

Original poster
MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 11:10

CoffeeBeansGalore · 14/01/2025 11:03

Next time they start up with well you could use your car to take . . .

Look, much as I enjoy working with (person) I have said no I will not be using my car for your benefit. That is not going to change so please stop asking. If this is a dealbreaker for you then let me know so I can look for another job.

And having just seen your update, look for another job. Why can't they collect the car to take to theirs if that's where it has to be kept? How many hours are you working for free? Because if they are not paying you for this time, that's what you are doing.

They genuinely can't see why they would pay me to drive the car to and from my client's home, the mum even said "no-one gets paid for driving to and from work", when I pointed out that I am still at work as I am driving your car, she shut up but still will not agree to paying the extra.

I know, it is time to look for new work but the truth is I have completely lost my confidence and as a 52 year old woman, wife and mother myself, I am utterly embarrassed to admit to that.

OP posts:
Original poster
MmmmmmmToblerone · 14/01/2025 11:16

Schoolchoicesucks · 14/01/2025 11:07

I think you have posted about them before - the travel time dropping the car around.

If you don't want to use your car to drive them around, then stick to that. It's a perfectly reasonable boundary.

Unfortunately if they want a carer with own car to drive them around, they may decide to hire someone else.

You have been accommodating and made suggestions for how you will support them to get around given their decision not to renew their lease.

I did start a thread last year about the driving to and from the client's house, I did change a few details at the time for fear of being outed but in all honesty I don't care right now as I feel really pee'd off about the way they are treating me, 6 years of working for them and it feels as though it is turning bitter now.

I know it is time to bow out from this job as I can't keep pandering to their constant demands, many unreasonable (I could say a bit more but you will all think I am a complete mug). DH just shakes his head every time I tell him something new.

OP posts:
Colourbrain · 14/01/2025 11:17

Hmm, OP, they have done a right number here, haven't they? The position you are in now seems to serve them in every way possible.
Your confidence must never, ever be laid at the feet of these people, that is step one to get out of this hell hole. You are clearly a caring person and they are taking the piss. There is something about these PA roles that leaves us so vulnerable. I started one a few years ago and they wanted me to administer medication without any paperwork, and all sorts of other shit. I left after a couple of weeks as I kept imagining turning up at A and E with my client severely ill and I would be entirely liable. Fuck that. You know yourself that they should be paying you to drop the bloody car off, of course that is still work time. This is a job at the end of the day, and you need to separate your self worth from what is happening here as I can entirely see how you are getting driven into the ground. Get a new job, just get away, and try and claw back who you are. Good luck, you can do this!

CagneyNYPD1 · 14/01/2025 11:19

@MmmmmmmToblerone you were green 6 years ago. But now you are an experienced PA with 6 years of work under your belt. As well as being a mature person who has raised a family. You are highly employable. Start having a look at what is out there.

CatStoleMyChocolate · 14/01/2025 11:25

Honestly, I know nothing about PA work but what I do know is that good, experienced carers like you are like gold dust and frankly, you would be in a position to name your terms if you want to find a more reasonable employer. You are a highly valuable employee with life experience, work experience and experience of raising a family. They will be in for a shock when you move on and should be doing what they can to keep you. I know it’s easier said than done but don’t let them knock your confidence.

And hold that boundary about your car. Be as firm as you like - they’re not worried about upsetting you by being direct about what they want, are they? That can go both ways.

Good luck. You’ve got this.

DPotter · 14/01/2025 11:27

Unless you live in an incredibly remote location, with 6 years experience as a PA you should have no problems finding another job. Start putting feelers out now to see what's available.

However I would keep working on practising saying No. Would it help if you put it in writing.

Dear Mrs x,
I thought it would be a good idea to confirm in writing that I will not be using my car to transport Y when the motability car is handed back in April. I am giving this notice so you have time to research alternative transportation.

I would be grateful therefore if you would refrain from requesting the use of my car. I have made my decision and this is my final word.

I am also giving notice that as of 27 Jan I will not be driving the car back to your home address at the end of each working day. Should you require this, I will be charging an extra hour per day for this service, as it falls outside my remit as PA to Y.
regards
Mmmmmm

CornishPorsche · 14/01/2025 11:29

Have a good read of the rules around you being SE - so your responsibilities, but also your entitlements.

https://activeindependence.org/wp/can-pas-be-self-employed/

https://pa-pages.org/pa-advicehub/guidance-7-2-self-employment/

https://www.scope.org.uk/advice-and-support/employing-personal-assistant-legally (what your family / client should have done)

https://www.scope.org.uk/advice-and-support/hiring-pa-for-home-care (might give you ideas on who to speak to about looking for a new job - ask about pay, hours, pension)

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