I'm not good at saying no, how do I approach this and keep my job?

[MmmmmmmToblerone]

I have been doing my job for 6 years. I am a PA for an adult disabled client. I work for them 3 days a week and I work on a self employed basis (at their insistence).

The job was advertised with a car to take my client out and about. My client has a mobility vehicle which I have always used to drive them to their appointments, sports and social clubs and when we go out shopping etc.

My client usually receives a new car every 3 years and their current one is up for renewal in April, they decided around 6 months ago they will not renew the contract in April as they want the money in their pocket, fair enough, I have no issue with that.

The problem is that for the last few months they and their mother (who is heavily involved in their lives) keep asking me what will happen when they give up their mobility car and how will we get about. I have replied saying we can get the bus or a taxi to our destinations, the reply to this is always a "Mmmm?"or a "Oh, ok".

Anyhow, it transpires that they want me to use my car, several times now the mother has asked if I can use my car once the contact ends. I have always replied that it's not big enough (Fiat 500) to get the wheelchair in but now she has come up with the idea that my client can use their sticks which tbh will make getting out and about quite tricky and restrict the places we can go.

Regardless if they can use their sticks or not, the truth is that I don't want to use my car, it's 14 years old and has 100,000 miles on the clock, I only use it to and from work and I don't want to put any mileage on it. The mother seems to think simply paying me mileage will suffice and when I told her a few weeks ago that I really don't want to put extra mileage on etc she has been really off with me since. I am getting a bit fed up, the job was never advertised as needing to use my own car and I have never in all the time I have worked for them offered up my car as part of the service. I feel they already take the piss out of me for other things at times and I do not want to be pushed into using my own car just because they want to save themselves some extra money.

But I am crap at saying no and sticking to it, especially when they create such an atmosphere over it all.

How do I continue sticking to no and hope they get the message without feeling awful about it and without them getting funny about it as they seem to be taking it personally.

I think they were saying they were employed as self employed in a shop?

How do I continue sticking to no

State simply and clearly that it is not possible to use your own car. Then just don't say anything else. No explanations. No nothing

If they ask you again, say again what you said before. Don't say anything else else.

That's the way to stick to no

Practice just saying no, it gets easier the more often you do it. All the best.

They never say much about previous PA's.

Between 2020 and 2022 they took on another PA to work a day that I could not cover and imho, they treated her awfully. I never met her but she sounded so kind but my client never took to her, she has a way of ghosting people that she doesn't like and recently told me she has 'her own way' of making sure PA's leave by simply blanking them until they hand in their notice. Very mature.

No I wasn’t I was classed as self employed casual cash every day I worked so no I wasn’t

Hi OP. I'm in a similar role as employed mentor for an adult with learning disabilities. He also brings his partner along to our sessions even though they dont get any funding, as they can't bear to be apart. I'm quite naturally involved in their lives as I see them every day and I've had to put my foot down on a few occasions when I feel they've crossed a line. The difference is my employers are very supportive and won't let me put up with any crap! The thing is, in your situation they have changed the terms of your initial role as it was advertised as them providing a car. I would do what others have suggested and lay out your new terms or give them notice of your termination of employment. Maybe you could see if there's any mentoring or similar companies in your area that you could find a role with?

I am contemplating giving my notice after starting this thread as it's just confirming everything I've been unsure of for a while.

I'll have a look and see what is available in my area, thank you.

You say "I have looked into it and would need business insurance which is unaffordable so unfortunately I will not be able to use my car to transport Client."

And then after that you just say "As I have previously said, I am unable to use my car to transport Client."

Absolute CF's tell them you aren't insured. Abs the mobility allowance is to pay for transport. And that doesn't mean in your car. I can't believe they've got the cheek to ask!

Insurance. Regretfully yours won’t allow it because you only have personal car insurance not business .

Remind your client that they will have the cash equivalent of their mobility allowance to pay for taxis .

Repeat as required.

This.

If you've tried skirting around the idea, I'd start being direct.

Tell them that they have to decide how they want to proceed but without factoring in your car or even possibly you as their continued hints and unclear messages are making working for them increasingly difficult.

Tell them that your car is considered off limits to them. They get a mobility vehicle every 3 years (which is quite wasteful by itself - is there any reason why the car has to be replaced so frequently?) and your car is not an alternative to that. They either carry on with the car they have, replace it with a new one or find alternative means of travel but your car is not that.

I'd definitely make sure that the message about the working conditions becoming increasingly difficult with their hints and eyes on your belongings as alternatives to theirs.

State that your insurance doesn’t permit business mileage and it is therefore not possible. Stick to your guns.

I would, as others have said, check you are definitely self employed as well. So that you don’t get HMRC challenges.

I'm definitely self employed, I deal with that side of things myself.

Please don't start telling them it's insurance, or the age of your car, or safety, or whatever other excuse is handy for not saying plainly 'No, I won't be using my car and that's final, please don't raise the matter again'.

It's a significant change to your (already fairly crap) working conditions, and you do not need an excuse to refuse.

I know the thread has moved on a bit since the OP posted this but it got me to thinking - you've said @MmmmmmmToblerone that the mobility vehicle is kept at the mother's house (not sure if that home is different to the one of the person you provide caring for) and then I'm assuming you leave your car there and use the mobility vehicle to drive to the home of the person you look after?

Well, I would consider the home of the person you look after, your normal place of work and the mother's home is not that, so they should be paying you from the time you get into your car to the time you reach the patient's home and they aren't. If this means that you're sitting in traffic for an hour, they should be paying for that.

I'm only saying that as I was under the impression that new European legislation was enacted which factored in the time employees were commuting when they weren't going to their normal place of work (or if they were a travelling sales person for example). As you are self employed, I'd strongly urge you to get chatting with a solicitor who could advise you on setting up a good contract going forwards and I'd use this time for negotiating new T's & C's with this family as they are taking the piss here.

just state a risk assessment has taken place and it would be against health and safety for your car to be used.

I'm definitely self employed, I deal with that side of things myself.

I don't think you are. However it's their problem from a tax perspective,not yours.

Update your terms and conditions then to cover that you will be charging for the time dropping their car off, and you will not be using your car.
Up your rate from 1st April.
Invoice them for the total number of hours worked.

You're self employed - this is your business - they don't get to tell you how to do the job, you are telling them what services you are offering, what hours you are available, and how much you charge.

These are the lift demanding clients! Honestly losing your job might be a blessing. You could walk away and in a year's time be amazed that you put up with this for so long. They sound incredibly self absorbed.

I think you need to be very strong in resisting their demand. Normal business insurance covers travel for work and taking colleagues I think, but transporting clients and getting paid for it should be a different category. Also consider whether you'd need public liability insurance because these clients would be WAY more likely to sue you than the general population should anything go wrong. But all that is flannel.

At least in your head, get angry about it. It's your car. Absolutely no one has the right to demand use of it. What would you say if they expected you to bring them your TV or your favourite shoes? They have no more right to demand your car than those. I wonder if drawing that boundary might be easier in the long run than trying to think up excuses they will accept. The more you talk, the more ways round it they will seek, and you know from previous issues that their views are remarkably self absorbed so appeals to what's reasonable or fair are not the way to get through to them. Excuses don't help you. Say no, keep saying no. You are a professional, you offer a range of services and none of them include your car. It's simply not a business asset, it's not part of the "package" you choose to offer. They don't need to be convinced to your way of thinking, your job is to get them to accept it's not an option. I think getting quietly angry at their presumption , demands and complete disregard for your choices and boundaries is a useful way forward.

Surely it will be much easier for you to get a new job than for them to get a new carer? So you hold all the power in this situation and need to decide what your boundaries are and stick to them. And perhaps start talking to agencies and find out what other opportunities are out there? You might feel more able to be assertive once you realise it wouldn't be the end of the world to have to find another job.

This is excellent advice OP.

’in your situation I'd be tempted to find a good care agency and work for them for a year or so to build up your confidence again and try new things out in the care sector. Agencies would bite your hand off. Just make sure it's a good one as there are plenty of awful ones- ask around and post on facebook to get people's feedback.’

This is your answer, OP.

I wish you better clients in the future, you sound a very kind and helpful person, just the sort of helper to whom everyone would hope to entrust their family members.

OP you are an experienced PA and I'd look for another job if I was you. A friend runs a care agency and the rate for companions for the (wealthy) elderly is really good, is that something you would consider? Can I be nosey and ask what the going rate for PA is?

You wouldn't be insured on normal insurance.

Say no.

Start job hunting

How much are they paying you per hour?