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Fucking Neil Gaiman!!

153 replies

Maximusdecimus · 14/01/2025 07:06

Such a nasty sordid case, and it now seems like his ex-wife is being implicated? He painted himself as an ally and a feminist. Sick of this fucking rhetoric with men. Are there no decent men anywhere?

Anyone with any doubts should listen here
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/master-the-allegations-against-neil-gaiman/id1756088562

Am gutted as I have so loved his books.

Master: the allegations against Neil Gaiman

Master: the allegations against Neil Gaiman

Documentary Podcast · 6 Episodes

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/master-the-allegations-against-neil-gaiman/id1756088562

OP posts:
Lentilweaver · 14/01/2025 17:51

A lot of people who rushed to cancel JK havent actually read her initial essay. No sensible person could object to it. It was perfectly sane.

Madcats · 14/01/2025 17:54

I think the original New York Magazine article is on the other thread. There is a link in this cover piece:

nymag.com/press/article/on-the-cover-the-side-of-neil-gaiman-his-fans-never-saw.html

It sounds absolutely vile.

Aside from Ghislaine Maxwell have any of the Epstein paedos and rapists been charged?

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/01/2025 18:01

What did he do that feminists considered him such an ally?

Lalgarh · 14/01/2025 18:17

"women are mystical and wonderous creatures" type bullshit

anonymous98 · 14/01/2025 18:39

Turophilic · 14/01/2025 13:04

It’s absolutely horrific - I think it’s 9 women now, and all the same stories of abuse. When it first broke in July I couldn’t believe how little traction the story got. I’m glad people are finally listening to the women involved.

And he doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong, the bastard. It’s like they aren’t human beings to him.

I’m very uncomfortable with how much blame is focused on Amanda Palmer. Gaiman is responsible for his abusive actions.

He's far worse than her, but she did knowingly provide him with vulnerable young women, with the knowledge that he was capable of assault. So I suppose she was the enabler to his abuse.

Their poor son. I hope he is receiving some help and has a safe home.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 14/01/2025 18:44

I am only just hearing about this. I've bought his work before my friend (male) was a huge fan. I feel a bit sick.

DreadPirateRobots · 14/01/2025 18:47

SheilaFentiman · 14/01/2025 17:02

I don’t think AFP has covered herself in glory but I think calling her complicit in procuring young women for Gaiman is considerably overstating it.

From the Vulture article, it seems like one of the victims (Scarlett) told AFP in March 2022 after the assault in the bath (in early feb 2022) the incident in the hotel room (mid Feb 2022) and various other horrible things in that month. At this point, Scarlett wasn’t describing them as assault or rape.

It seems that AFP tried to take care of Scarlett afterwards in her flat and via a mutual friend. However, AFP should have provided a statement to the police when asked.

This is a long way from Ghislaine Maxwell and Gaiman clearly shoulders most of the blame.

I agree. I am no booster of AFP but I can already see the narrative that she is "just as bad" shaping up, and she isn't. Her behaviour may not have been something I'd wish to promote as tiptop morality, but it is not remotely on the same scale as NG's, and to try and paint it as such is pure misogyny.

godmum56 · 14/01/2025 18:52

I tried a couple of his books when Good Omens came out. I found they had a streak of nastiness in them. Similarly when he wrote further episodes of the GO TV series. nasty. I am not saying I foresaw this....but nastiness.

HermioneWeasley · 14/01/2025 19:00

Wasn’t he a “trans women are women” sort?

Raquelos · 14/01/2025 19:36

HermioneWeasley · 14/01/2025 19:00

Wasn’t he a “trans women are women” sort?

Oh yes 100%, in a benevolent Gandalfesque "be kind" guise😖😡

BorgQueen · 14/01/2025 19:38

Any Man who wangs on about being a Feminist and says in the same breath that Men can be Women, is a wrongun, every single one.

Lalgarh · 14/01/2025 20:24

Wonder if he tried any of this stuff with his TRA fans.

Sci FI and fantasy, as that Vulture article notes, is full of people who are vulnerable and initially offering themselves to their hero who's written some book that speaks to them. It's why online culture becomes so toxic as they inhabit that world as what they seeas a safe space, and are so easily driven to rage over criticism of their beloved text (doctor who, star trek fandom etc, of which many overlap on gender, mental health, abuse survivors #BeKind and General Activism and etc)

People who flock to fantasy conventions and signings make up an “inherently vulnerable community,” one of Gaiman’s former friends, a fantasy writer, tells me. They “wrap themselves around a beloved text so it becomes their self-identity,” she says. They want to share their souls with the creators of these works. “And if you have morality around it, you say ‘no.’” It was an open secret in the late ’90s and early aughts among conventiongoers that Gaiman cheated on his first wife, Mary McGrath, a private midwestern Scientologist he’d married in his early 20s. But in my conversations with Gaiman’s old friends, collaborators, and peers, nearly all of them told me that they never imagined that Gaiman’s affairs could have been anything but enthusiastically consensual. .”

SwissBall · 14/01/2025 20:39

I agree that AP’s actions are not the same as NG’s, though it does sound as if prior to their split AP would have been up for sex with Pavlovich. I have read accounts of them both attending university events on the lookout for students to have sex with.

DreadPirateRobots · 14/01/2025 20:39

HermioneWeasley · 14/01/2025 19:00

Wasn’t he a “trans women are women” sort?

Oh my God, can't you give it a rest for five fucking minutes?

This isn't about trans women or trans rights or trans issues in any way. It's about a man who is a rapist and what makes him a rapist is that he raped women, not his opinion on trans women.

BorgQueen · 14/01/2025 20:42

It’s absolutely connected.
All the twaw wankers have turned out to be at best, dodgy, at worst, highly abusive sexual predators.

shockeditellyou · 14/01/2025 20:50

I saw a link to the NY Mag article on Reddit and was heartened by the replies. Is there a link to the other MN thread?

EllieQ · 14/01/2025 20:51

Juliagreeneyes · 14/01/2025 17:30

Lots of horrified reactions from the SF and fantasy-reading acquaintances on my social media, saying they’ll be purging their bookshelves (I never got into the horrible man’s gothy works myself, thank goodness - they always seemed offputting to me). But many of those same people were hopping up and down about JK Rowling too, and my goodness doesn’t this put that into perspective?

Think of the absolute vilification Rowling got for merely (and politely) expressing an opinion that women shouldn’t be forced out of jobs for saying sex is real. And compare that to the indulgence often shown to really nasty men like Gaiman, who actually go about assaulting and abusing. I hope some of his former fans have a little bit of a think about how Rowling was treated (and will be treated) compared to him.

Much the same among my SFF-loving friends and acquaintances, and across Book Twitter/ BlueSky/ Tumblr. But as many of them ignored the allegations when they first came out last year in the Tortoise podcast, because it’s ‘run by transphobes/ Rachel Johnson was involved’, so I’m taking their comments with a pinch of salt 🙄

I used to be a huge Gaiman fan, but drifted away over the past few years, starting with him getting married to Amanda Palmer (I found her annoying, tbh) and escalated with his behaviour during lockdown (returning to Scotland and leaving Amanda with their son in NZ), but his books were a big part of my life for a while.

shockeditellyou · 14/01/2025 20:53

I also thought there was a bit of a disconnect between treatment of Neil, whilst JK should apparently have been burnt at the stake….

UnhappyAndYouKnowIt · 14/01/2025 20:53

I feel a bit sad for the actors who have presumably worked hard in the series he's written. I don't think I can bring myself to watch them when they come out.

HermioneWeasley · 14/01/2025 20:57

DreadPirateRobots · 14/01/2025 20:39

Oh my God, can't you give it a rest for five fucking minutes?

This isn't about trans women or trans rights or trans issues in any way. It's about a man who is a rapist and what makes him a rapist is that he raped women, not his opinion on trans women.

There’s a huge overlap between men who have tirelessly campaigned for the safeguarding of women and children to be dismantled and men who turn out to be predators, so yes it’s relevant. HTH.

AshCrapp · 14/01/2025 21:29

InkHeart2024 · 14/01/2025 13:33

Fucking hell. I always thought she was a bullshit faker as a feminist and artist but I didn't think she was a woman hater too. This is awful if true.

The article paints her as self involved rather than complicit. I don't see any evidence that she was sourcing women for him.

Lentilweaver · 14/01/2025 21:36

AshCrapp · 14/01/2025 21:29

The article paints her as self involved rather than complicit. I don't see any evidence that she was sourcing women for him.

Finding young untrained practically homeless women on the street to be nannies?
Sending nude pix of her friends to Neil?

Complicit I think.
But yes the far bigger crime is his. But lets not forget that young women are more easily lured if there is a seemingly cool.feminist woman on the scene.

januaryblues83 · 14/01/2025 22:23

This is so fucking disgusting. Just read that article. Never been a fan of these people or that kind of fiction, but aware of their cult status. What a total and utter degraded bastard.

The fact he did that in front of his CHILD.
His child calling the woman "slave". It makes my heart bleed. Who is caring for that child now? He will already be utterly fucked up by this. It's completely devastating.

As a survivor of abuse in my childhood, I sought therapy and learned to understand myself and my behaviour in my 30's. (I never abused anyone else but abused myself). To think that a 60-something old man STILL hasn't taken ANY accountability for himself, and refused to have proper therapy or fully discuss his upbringing. What an entitled weak selfish black hole of a man he must be.

miliop · 15/01/2025 06:36

Sounds like a complete bastard. I'm deeply suspicious of any man who goes on about being a feminist, while also being 'sex-positive', TWAW and into open relationships etc.

There are some interesting bits in that Vulture article. One, that his readership is described as an 'inherently vulnerable community'. Two, that his depictions of rape, torture and murder of women were 'largely perceived as evidence of his empathy'.

Fucking hell. I think there is a real collective naivety going on here. These people know how to find and exploit the vulnerable, and somehow get lauded for their 'empathy'.

SageHoney · 15/01/2025 06:42

There are decent men, but they're not out there screaming "I'm a feminist; buy my stuff!"

This is a good reminder that the most misogynist elements in our society will cloak themselves in a fake feminist mantle if they think it accrues positive feedback and makes money. Unfortunately, but predictably, it's one more job for women to scrutinize the self-proclaimed "feminists" and espose the frauds.

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