Thread 13 Starmer - facts are for lefties

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5214955-thread-12-starmer-from-prescott-to-rayner-working-class-grit?page=40&reply=140341929

Wow, that’s a bit different from their manifesto in June.

I’m reading A Scandalous Man by Gavin Esler @cardibach. it’s a political thriller, my favourite kind of fiction.

Really miserable grey wet & windy day here, I’m sorting out my shoes which are overflowing in the bottom of the wardrobe the wardrobe drawer & two boxes under the bed a cull is definitely overdue

I think that a lot of light is going to be put on Farage's policies over the next few years.

I thought that Reform's manifesto said they were looking towards a more European type of health service which seems to be what he is saying now.

I wonder if a campaign to force Farage to continually have to deny batshit but Reform-credible policies might serve to blunt his impact ?

For example the Reform policy to bring back five star petrol, now we are out of the EU. He needs to be hit with that at a pressa ....

Difficult to say as, interestingly, the 2024 manifesto has been removed from their website. I do remember that they pledged to take everyone who worked in the NHS and earned less than £50k out of income tax. God knows where they thought they were going to get the money for that.

Apparently the asparagus have spoken...
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/shock-predictions-major-health-scare-050000082.html

not looking good for Trump, some royals or climate change.

not looking good for Trump, some royals or climate change.

Also predicted was that the sun will rise in the east and set in the west. And it will rain heavily in Britain. Somewhere.

They did mention something about copying European insurance based healthcare in their 'contract with voters'.

Ofcourse they didn't say anything about the costs or how much more those countries spend on healthcare

(I have been told on another thread that policies don't matter really)

Ofcourse they didn't say anything about the costs or how much more those countries spend on healthcare

Of course they didn't. They know full well that countries like France, Germany and the Netherlands spend considerably more per head of population on health than the UK, and that isn't the message they want to send...

I would love to see any party address the elephant in the room - which is an ageing population, a population where we have people who are economically inactive for a range of reasons and the social care issue.

And have a proper discussion. Not soundbites.

Yes, as far as I am aware those governments spend more per capita on health care than we do and have done for a long time.
The result is that they have more medics, more beds, more CT & MRI scanners.

And I bet their government didn't spend a decade underinvesting in their medical estate. And then falsely promise 40 new hospitals.

Any shift to Insurance based healthcare would not come for free.

I'd like interviewers to press these points for a response.

I'm actually very interested in what a change might offer us - but there should be no pretence that will necessarily lower taxes.

I'm so pleased you got your cat back @Evenstar

I agree with most of what you say there @Notonthestairs , but anNHS free at the point of use for everyone is a red line for me. No changes, just proper funding and policies.

It is for me too. There’s a hell of a lot of reform needed in the NHS but the funding model is bottom of the list.

I'm not wedded to the NHS funding model, but I take a pragmatic view and that is really simple: if we want to do an insurance model right in terms of quality of care, it will cost the taxpayer more, not less. I'm pretty sure Reform voters will not be able to accept or understand that.

Just need to ask him for a plan and if he can see anything wrong with it. It's only the NHS, which is a national treasure, despite its issues, and do voters really want to mess round with it and completely change its funding and how it's paid for after everything they've known?

Yeah, he won't have a plan. Personally I don't care much as long as things improve for both the staff and the patients. There's pros and cons to all models and the NHS has done well by me, but on the other hand I do see the deep flaws - you can't miss them if you work in the system. Personally I would target procurement - my Trust is paying £800 for a laptop I could walk into Currys and buy for less than half that.

NHS procurement has always been crap, that’s why it made such a mess of PFI and the providers have made such a killing.

When Farage talks about insurance based systems what he's suggesting is that he'll cut taxes.

Not true as far as I can see. In fact I think it would require a lot more investment from government.

Which is why he should be pressed for ALL the detail.

Procurement has always struck me as crap even in the very large, multinational financial services company I worked for. Certainly not only a public sector thing. Don't get me started on facilities management contracts.

It’s much the same in local government (education in particular). Same old companies getting the contracts, hugely inflated costs.

Happy new year, Starmeristas.

Here’s to an interesting 2025.

Lucky I never tidy up my phone

Oh that is lucky! That could come in very handy!