Man United star refuses to wear rainbow shirt

[coxesorangepippin]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-14156669/Man-United-scrap-plans-LGBT-rainbow-jacket-Noussair-Mazraoui.html

Wonder what Man U will do about this??

Absolutely agree @TheWiseFish

Believing that being gay is unnatural or immoral doesn't make him homophobic. Using slurs or homophobic language, saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed on teams or otherwise defaming gay people would make him homophobic. As far as I am aware, he hasn't done so?

I don't believe in God. I think people who do believe in God are wrong and the idea that one day the messiah will come and the dead will walk again is ridiculous and a very outdated belief. Does this make me antisemitic? No of course not.

There quite a few steps of epic proportions between not believing in something and hating it.

@balloonhearts I don't think he should have even given an explanation.
A simple "No, I'm not wearing that" should suffice if it's not his job description or contract to promote political activism.

@TheWiseFish Well, quite. No would have been a perfectly acceptable response.

As an aside DS just mentioned that Liverpool remove the carlsberg logo from their player of the man awards and from any tweets when it is Mo Salah who is a Muslim out of respect for his religious beliefs. So when another player wins it the logo is there and celebrated as Carlsberg man of the match for Salah (which is an awful lot) it is just player of the match

which is how it should be - having the sponsor but recognising his beliefs whe he wins the award

Exactly

He's actively refusing to show to solidarity with a campaign for inclusivity in football and hiding behind religion as his justification. Sounds pretty activist to me.

Let's assume he is an activist, for his cause.

His cause and another cause clash. He declines to show support for the other cause.

What's wrong with that?

This.

ln the UK, a person can choose whether or not to drink, regardless of what their religion suggests (it cannot enforce), it’s a lifestyle choice.

By contrast, being gay is not a choice. So he should show support for inclusion. It’s a case if fighting prejudice within the game.

UK law does not agree that Religious Belief is a choice. The exact same law protects both sexual orientation and belief (EQ10).

My comment was in response to someone saying there is no need for a song and dance. I'm saying that action of some sort is needed, because it is basically not possible to be a (male) gay footballer and can be difficult going to games as a gay couple.

Personally I think performative things like armbands are fine if they are done completely voluntarily. But there are plenty of other things that could be done.

So it is necessary to separate out:

1. Is homophobia a problem in football and if so, should something be done about it?
2. Should footballers be pressurised to endorse anti-homophobia campaigns?

For the me the answer to number 1 is 'yes' and the answer to number 2 is 'no'.

I've never been to a football match in my life, so please forgive my lack of understanding here.

Could you explain why attending a match as a gay couple is difficult? What kind of abuse and harassment do you get? is it targeted or a general yelling of nasty things? Either would not surprise me.

not only is religious belief not a choice he is also from Morocco (the player involved)

I blame Man Utd for not properly thinking this through and the implications of it. None of the other clubs decided to do it and most (one captain in the premiership did refuse the armband on religious bands as well and another wrote I love Jesus) just wore the armbands.

The armbands haven’t been mentioned as much in mainstream media and you probably have to follow football to know about it but this has gone into mainstream because it is Man Utd

they must have been aware - and the backlash the player could receive - Mo Salah (the player I mentioned who doesn’t have Carlsberg attached to his player of the year awards) posted a picture of his family with a Christmas Tree in matching Christmas pyjamas and received a huge amount of backlash and criticism so the player would receive an awful lot of backlash if he wore it you can see why at his age he wouldn’t want to do that

Religious belief in the UK is a choice. Being gay is not a choice.

Both are protected characteristics though.

He's actively refusing to show to solidarity with a campaign for inclusivity in football and hiding behind religion as his justification. Sounds pretty activist to me.

We should all have the ability to adopt a non participatory role in any work activism whether it's flags or pronouns

It should be a choice

Is this one of those pyramid style hierarchy things, where one protected characteristics rises far above all the others?

If you're looking for a reason why some people are losing patience with pride, there it is.

They're ALL protected characteristics. Equally protected.

However, they're not equivalent, one is actually considered a belief in law and very much a choice, although protected, it doesn't have the same definition. Ie if "his belief was not one worthy of respect in a democratic society, and conflicted with the fundamental rights of others, and so was not capable of being protected under discrimination law" (Mackereth v DWP)

It's a moot point anyway, as his "religious beliefs" are already comprimised by being sponsored by gambling & alcohol companies. It's a shield for his prejudice, he should be able to articulate his objection to his employers without hiding behind Islam.

The campaign is not for 'inclusivity'. Its a misogynistic movement that hides behind 'inclusivity' as a justification.

And the beliefs of Muslims are very well known. Very well known. Nothing 'hiding' about it.

For many religious people, including Muslims, religion is life and death. It is not a 'choice'. And their 'choice' is no less valid than the 'choice' of gay people to be gay publicly. You are simplifying the life-and-death beliefs of people to justify the BULLYING of people of faith for not wearing a fucken jersey! That has NO implications on gay people one way or the other.

There are many people of faith who do believe (not saying I agree with them, just making the point) that being gay is a choice.

You are simplifying the life-and-death beliefs of human beings to attack a man of faith, in a multifaith country, for not wearing a tacky jersey. Have a word with yourself.

@MonkeyToHeaven Also the word 'inclusive' does a LOT of heavy lifting. Most of the time it means actively excluding someone. It is imo the new buzzword for bigotry.

I keep reading this same quote re: gambling companies and it’s doesn’t seem to be true in the case of this particular player, it’s like an out of control copy pasta/meme but no one is fact checking it. Gambling companies will be banned as shirt sponsors from 2026 onwards anyway.
www.premierleague.com/news/3147426

There is a religious carve out for not performing same sex marriages in UK law, so it’s clearly not considered ‘unWORIADS’ for religions to not treat same sex couples equally.
Not wanting to wear a promotional shirt for Stonewall obviously meets the Grainger Test.

Noussair Mazraoui’s employers (United) have accepted his objections, hence pulling all the promotional shirts rather than insisting players still wear it.

Their team captain still wore the rainbow armband.

I’m an atheist, personally, but religious differences are part of UK society and no one should be compelled by an employer to make a statement that goes against their belief.
I wouldn’t wear an I Heart Jesus T shirt because an employer told me to, not even for an Easter promotion.

Manchester United do not have any of those 'sponsors' (and they're actually affiliates, not sponsors) on the jersey. So your point is not only ignorant and bigoted, and Islamophobic, it is in fact, null and void.

There comes a time where, people who are attacking this man for his life-and-death beliefs, need to consider that perhaps they are Islamophobic and are bigots and maybe - just maybe - are the ones in the wrong here. I say this as an agnostic. But the hateful Islamophobic bigotry on this thread all over a fucken ugly tacky political jersey, that actually does one fifth of fuck all for LGBT people in reality and only turns people AWAY from the cause; means some people on this thread that are so misguided they think that they are the 'good guys', need to hard a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.