Scottish people- how is phonics taught in Scotland?

[Bigearringsbigsmile]

Following on from the shaun the sheep thread.
In England, we used to use Letters and Sounds and now schoold use a variety of different schemes. All have standard pronunciation of phonemes as part of the scheme. Letters and sounds had adjustments for regional variations like flat vowels. Bath, grass etc

I am really interested in learning how it taught in Scotland. Do you have different schemes to England? Are the phonemes different to allow for rhoticity?

I find this topic fascinating too.

My children were born in Essex and have the accent. They live with a mother who is from the north, though my not-very-broad accent has been smoothed off by ten years in London, and their dads family are from the West Country.
I do feel sorry for them learning phonics as they’re hearing different sounds from their teacher and parents. My child in reception is especially struggling with the ‘th’ ‘f’ and ‘v’ sounds.

No I have tried but can't find the bbc radio programme about rhotic R. The pronunciation of R is different in Scotland. This is not to demean other people's pronunciation, it just isn't Scots pronunciation. We don't say caaa, we say carrrrr. We don't say Lock, we say Loch (ch not ck). If you want to know different accents/pronunciations, I believe elecution lessons are still typically available

thanks for looking

how would you pronounce the lock on the door?

Fascinated by how the Scots pronounce poor, paw, pour and (maybe) pore differently.

@MadKittenWoman a friend of mine who lives abroad uses this example when people say understanding the Scottish accent is difficult. It's often clearer and easier (IMO) but people are less familiar with it.

To make the "wh" sound in which or whale, purse your lips as though you're about to say ooo, then use your vocal chords to make a sound while doing a short sharp breath out. When we speak it's a much gentler version of the same sound.

The subject fascinates me too. We start to learn the difference between these sounds in the womb. People aren't always being awkward when they can't understand the difference. Try asking someone who speaks a tonal language to tell you different sounds and see how hard it would be to pick them out in a word.

yes-you can really hear the difference
all the English ones are very southern RP i think
where i live lots of people would say 'ar' with a very elongated ar ...i can't think how to describe it

Yes, there are a variety Irish accents too, that just represents one really, OP. The r will almost always be pronounced here though.

I would pronounce it lock

My DH is a midlander. We both teach phonics. He cannot hear that in my accent put and sun have a different pronunciation of the ‘u’.

@RaraRachael I think the way english people speak sounds really lazy. I feel they should pronounce the word and not leave letters out. as for A child once wrote "heeow" - I was totally stumped until I realised it was "hill" in a South London accent. I have looked and puzzled over this and I still cannot find any way to liken this to hill?? help me out please!

I always thought that our children in southern England were at a disadvantage with learning phonics, so I think you’ve got it the wrong way round OP. Try saying P-a-th then turning it into path with a southern English accent.

easier for me because i am a northerner-it sounds exactly as it looks for me!

my southern in laws laugh at the way i say bus and duck -they change the u sound in a way i can't describe

the other one is 'fire'- they say it with one syllable but for me it has two

@allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld sorry it's almost impossible to explain.

The r sound varies across Scotland. Around Glasgow it's more pronounced like murrrrder whereas I'd put the ur together

Poor is one of my brummie problem words.
It has two very clear syllables when I say it - poo er (kind of) for my Silhillian pupils it very much only has one.

I moved from Scotland to England. I could not work out ir initially when DC were doing phonics. They used girl as the picture for it but then said it sounded the same as things like ur in curl. In Scottish girl is pronounced as four separate sounds g-i-r-l not g-ur-l. It took me a long time to work out it was a Scottish/English thing and it wasn’t just that I was somehow failing to understand Yr 1 the second time around!

Poor (poo're but you say it very quickly); Paw (drop the gran but granpaw as if you're in the Waltons ); pour and pore (same pronunciation) but poare (also said very quickly and not really enunciating the "a") is the best description I can come up with

When I moved to London from Scotland many years ago I had a friend called Dawn. It used to amuse her that it sounded (to English ears) as if I was calling her "Don" . And don't get me started on the hours of amusement I afforded them when they would ask me to say "Curly Wurly".

I had an English work colleague whose husband was called Don and her daughter was called Dawn which I thought very odd.

Regarding "poor" - in the NE we'd say "poo-err". We have a habit of putting in an extra syllable so door is doh-err and school is sk-oo-ahl

I find this really interesting too,when I first read DC1 Julia Donaldsons book the smartest giant in town I was puzzled as to how she was rhyming 'scarf' and 'giraffe' as my northern accent read ji-raff and not jir-aarf and I couldn't make it compute in my head for ages despite clearly knowing that people have different accents 🤣

Julia Donaldson books are a nightmare for Scottish teachers 🤣

Well Dawn is Don - what else would it be? 🤔😅

Irish parents too.

No, she was right to begin with. Phonics is not a plural noun.

I had a classroom game where the children had to match the rhyming pictures.
Farmers=pyjamas 🤣

It soon went to the charity shop!

Thank you! I knew I was right but didn't want an argument!!!🤣

Don't get me started on the non-rhyme in 'What the ladybird heard'!

A slight side-step to this interesting conversation, if I may. A minority of kids attend GME schools in Scotland - Gaelic Medium Education (education through the medium of Gaelic, or immersion). Gaelic has only 18 letters but more individual sounds than English. These children often don't start having English classes at school until primary 4. Fascinating isn't it?