Scottish people- how is phonics taught in Scotland?

[Bigearringsbigsmile]

Following on from the shaun the sheep thread.
In England, we used to use Letters and Sounds and now schoold use a variety of different schemes. All have standard pronunciation of phonemes as part of the scheme. Letters and sounds had adjustments for regional variations like flat vowels. Bath, grass etc

I am really interested in learning how it taught in Scotland. Do you have different schemes to England? Are the phonemes different to allow for rhoticity?

@Bigearringsbigsmile a North Lanarkshire person would pronounce it differently to my Aberdeen accent as south of Scotland tend to make their vowels longer.
There's no such thing as a Scottish accent.

i have spent ages trying to convince a child that a big thing with bark and leaves was a 'tree' and not a 'chree' for the exact same reason.

i remember reading an article about a school in essex that gave the children elocution lessons because their accent was hampering their phonics learning - they were using f instead of th etc

It is not the aitch before the w in Scots. It is the double u and aitch as "one sound" - Wh is one sound

i don't know why i am interested! i just am-it is interesting!

What language do you speak? That might help with explaining the sounds you are interested in

Maybe that’s what I mean too 😅
Sorry, not an expert. There’s a bit of a haitch sound in there somewhere anyway. (Haitch is the spelling always used in Ireland btw. I’ve been jumped on before for using it which is why I mention it.)

What I find amazing is that there are people on MN who claim not to realise that people in the UK speak differently!

I've actually been called ignorant and told I'm mispronouncing words because I pronounce them differently with my accent.

Like "fank" you instead of thank you. Are you teaching in Essex and trying to understand other accents that enunciate their words in a different way?

i speak english with a northern accent so flat vowels

I teach in Suffolk. I had one child with a strong Suffolk accent wrote ‘nighun’ for nine and ‘towen’ for town.

People who don't say the R sound say the middle of the word cart as ahhh like at the dentist and people who do sound the R say arrrr like a pirate.

Does that help?

no!!
i am just interested after reading the other thread!

i absolutely appreciate that different people speak in different accents and have different ways of saying things.

i was wondering how phonics worked with the rhotic accents and thought i'd ask .
please feel free to ignore the thread if you don't like it

Hi,

I learned to read with phonics in Scotland. It's not any different really except that the teacher has a Scottish accent.

So they would say "forth" and "four" and pronounce both "r"s. So it's actually simpler for the children in many ways, because of having fewer irregulars, iyswim.

Here is how ar is pronounced in my accent.

schools.ruthmiskin.com/training/view/YjlcSwJs/3njoX64a

Right. So you would enunciate "lovely" as a northern England accent something like "loavely", I would enuciate as "luvely". I'm not sure what someone in Essex would say. I listened to a programme on rhotic R (sometimes called the rolling R, a Scots phenomenum) a while ago. It was an interesting programme about accents. I'll see if I can find info about it and post it here.

Yes, I saw some of the Shaun the sheep thread you mention.

A few posters who didn’t have English accents said they didn’t get the pun with shorn until it was explained to them. Shaun/shorn sound the same in English accents apparently but not in Irish or (some?) Scottish accents.

All fine…except some people couldn’t seem to accept that. Said the others would have been familiar with the appropriate accent from various sources and should have known?? Or something. It went on and on.

I didn’t get the pun until that thread! It’s really not obvious in my accent.

thanks for that! the difference is very slight there isn't it?

I can’t imagine trying to teach English phonics with a Scottish accent. So I should hope the teacher it differently.
It’s bad enough for me teaching in Solihull with a broad Birmingham accent and I’m from less than 10 miles away from the school.

i would pronounce it as 'luvly'

😂

My kids did Read Write Inc at primary in Scotland, though some of the example words were adjusted for vowel sounds - I can't remember which but definitely some that had Os, maybe some OU related ones.

What was hardest with that was the online component that they got for homework sometimes. You had to listen to the sound and select which letter/s it represents, and the sound was said in a generic Southern English accent. A lot of the sounds were very hard for us to tell apart!

This is how ‘car’ is said in various accents @Bigearringsbigsmile. The difference between the speakers from the UK and the one from Ireland is quite obvious I think.
You can see why the sounds need to be taught differently.
https://forvo.com/word/car/

Retired now, but taught (English) phonics for many years. Fascinated by how the Scots pronounce poor, paw, pour and (maybe) pore differently. There is also a difference in syllable count; in English pronunciation, 'world' or 'girl' have one syllable, whereas in Scottish pronunciation there are two syllables.

There is also the issue of northern v southern English pronunciation. Bath and grass are pronounced b-a-th and g-r-a-ss 'up north", but pronounced b-ar-th and g-r-ar-ss 'down south. This can cause problems with spelling. Southerners are unable to say my very ordinary name as I would like, although they can say the first part correctly as it is a word by itself. I also don't understand why Arsenal are referred to as 'the Gooners' when 'the Gunners' makes perfect sense to a northerner, and 'fuck' is jokingly spelt by southerners as 'fook'. For us northerners, gun, book, fuck, and bus have all the same sound.

When I was teaching spelling (in the south-west, to middle-class incomer children who have a more RP pronunciation than to the more indigenous areas), especially to those with dyslexia, I used to make a distinction between 'my accent' which helped with spelling of words with 'a' and 'your accent' for reading.

I had to teach French to a Y6 class in England. I'd been taught to speak with a fairly reasonable French accent. So I said "Ouvrez la porte" and they looked at me as if I had 2 heads. I ended up saying it in a cod S English accent like "Oovrai la pawt" so they could understand me 🤣

yes-you can really hear the difference

all the English ones are very southern RP i think
where i live lots of people would say 'ar' with a very elongated ar ...i can't think how to describe it