I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

[inigomontoyahwillcox]

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

You seem to have accepted a narrative that you “gave” him chickenpox when you were 7 and he was 14, and all his problems stemmed from there. Get some therapy to let go of this misplaced responsibility/guilt you seem to have! Put your own family first. Tell everyone he doesn’t get to stay at your place anymore for a start…

He sounds very selfish and self-absorbed. He's dragging you all down and that's not fair. It's so much easier to offload his depression/ anxiety on you and your family than face into it himself. Crisis treatment in a mental health unit focuses on the individual being responsible for their own recovery- so you're NOT being selfish. Quite the opposite.

You can't cope?
Shake him off, then.
You don't owe anything to anyone, even to your brother/parents whatever.
People are always happy to take your time, energy and chunks of you, unless YOU actually stop it.
You didn't ask for this life, how about making it as nice for yourself as possible?

I just spoke to my mum and told her everything, she's incredibly sorry this has been happening and says it's absolutely not my responsibility. She has to speak to my dad first but hopefully he can go up there. I told her he's on the verge of loosing his job and she said she thought he might be.

I know he's going to say that he can't be sure he won't "do something stupid" if I make him leave. I know he's is going to hate me. But I cannot go on like this and subject DH and DD to the stress.

I actually do think as other posters have suggested that some therapy would be useful to unpick some of the guilt you feel

I think you need to talk to him about getting better professional help. Can you speak to his crisis team and tell them directly that you can't support him so closely anymore?

Is he in regular therapy? Is he doing anything about his mental health other than taking the prescription?
L

Well done and good luck OP. He is probably going to be unpleasant when he realises you mean it, so be ready for that.
You need to see this through, for everyone's sake. Including your brother's.

I strongly feel that sending your brother off to your parents is not fair on them either. Please don't guilt them into having to shoulder this huge responsibility.

He needs to involve professionals. And you all, as a family, can provide some support that doesn't involve him staying with either of you. Please be explicit with him that get won't be able to stay with you (don't even allow a single day bc of the inevitable drama of having to push him out). You can tell him all this kindly and explain, kindly again, the toll he has on your family. He needs to know.

Remember - you need to consider the needs of five of you (you, your family and your parents) against the needs of one person.

I strongly feel that sending your brother off to your parents is not fair on them either. Please don't guilt them into having to shoulder this huge responsibility.

It's far more reasonable than burdening his sister. And I say that as a fairly exhausted parent to an adult with significant MH problems, partner to a man with significant mental and physical problems, and sister to two siblings with very serious MH problems. I will prioritise my son (and his siblings), and then my DH, before my own siblings.

And you are really unwell! How on earth can he think it's OK to land himself not even on a sibling but a struggling brother in law?

(I'm agreeing that he needs to get professional help, TR888, but as that may take a while, his parents are better placed to help than his sister's struggling family.)

@LostittoBostik no he's not. He's getting some counselling from the occupational health service at his work. I asked him a couple of days ago whether he tried any talking therapies over the past few years and he said he had a couple of sessions of CBT but he thought it was a waste of time, I said there's other types but he said he didn't like talking to other people about his life and feelings.

K would be pushing the crisis team to asses him for sectioning as it sounds like he’s on the road to being a danger to himself if he can’t look after himself.

if you and your parents keep picking up the pieces you’ll be back to square one when your parents are too infirm or pass on - and then you’ll be dealing with someone grieving and it will all be about his grief etc whilst you are probably trying to sort it all out.

And your well being. Remember you count as well!
Please please put yourself, your husband and dd first .
Your brother feels he can't cope cos he's not needed to- hes dumped it all on you , your family and your parents.Mental health issues don't give him a Free pass to take over your home and lifes with no consideration,discussion or agreement with you. I bet your husband would never behave like that and he obviously has also had significant mental health issues. I also feel sorry for your poor parents if your brother decamp to their home.
Why can't your brother cope at home with support services?

Tell him he has to go to your parents as they can focus on him alone while you recover. Make vague noises about him coming back when you've recovered. Whatever you need to do to get him to leave peacefully. Then don't let him come back.

Stay strong for your daughter, no one else will prioritize her if you don't.

So glad you have taken the step of talking to your parents, OP. It isn't really their responsibility, either, to take on a big care role. But you certainly need them as allies in the project of getting him to see whose responsibility it really is. And of course, between all of you, you can offer the kind of support that is reasonable. A loving ear and occasional ordinary family hospitality (rather than a care home!)

If he does mention suicide in the way that you have said he has in the past, be firm. Say that it isn't appropriate for him to share these thoughts with you, and that if he has suicidal feelings he must speak to Samaritans or a professional.

Speaking of suicide has so many more meanings than simply communicating an actual suicidal intention, and some of those meanings involve putting unacceptable pressure on friends and relatives. It can be manipulative. I don't mean to demonise him at all: when things are desperate for us of course we flail around trying to pressure other people to help. But it is an unfair pressure and I would be tempted to tell him that. If you can't go that far, then just say Samaritans on repeat and don't engage.

The other thing, OP, is that often (not always), people with this level off depress are so wrapped up into their struggles that they seem unable to see beyond themselves. That's why I think a kind but frank conversation with your brother is important, so that he understands the reason for the change in support plans.

Yes, I remember from last year when DH made a couple of attempts (one he aborted before he went ahead, and the other when the noose failed) - although DH was adamant he wasn't going to try again I was permanently on high alert that he was going to try again. I still am.

Now I've got my brother telling the crisis team on the phone that he felt like doing something to himself when he was at home but he feels safe now he's at my house.

I think he's been like that for decades. Completely wrapped up in himself.

And he made sure to say that in your hearing, eh?

I wasn't going to make this point until you said about DH and the noose, but my worry would be the stress making him do something stupid.

@Honeycrisp that's one of the reasons I can't do this anymore, my husband is still very vulnerable - he doesn't honk he is, but he is. He is the kind of person to stick his head in the sand and insist everything is OK ... until it's not.

My suggestion was to appeal to your brothers better nature. Explain to him that you are worried about your DH and DD and you are worried about your own health. I was going to suggest you ask him what he thinks you should do. BUT from what you wrote above I think he has MH issues yes, but he sounds incredibly self absorbed and that is not okay, I’m not sure he has a better nature to appeal to when he is like this.

You are absolutely right that you must deal with this now. Talk to him with your DH and tell him you have to focus on your immediate family for a while. Given your home circumstances he would have to be a robot to not have any understanding.

Good luck, you sound lovely and I hope you feel better soon x

I feel so much for your daughter, your husband, and so, so much, for you. You have way too much on your plate right now, something has to give. And it needs not to be you, your daughter, or your husband, who are already vulnerable, and sometimes struggling with the challenges.

I'm another one thinking a very frank conversation needs to be had with your brother. Because any room for ambiguity and misinterpretation in his favour is going to be taken by him, and run to the try line like Jonah Lomu on his best day.

He needs to be told that your home is not his halfway house. That he cannot rely on you being his safety net, and that he really needs to engage with all OTHER possible resources to get his mental health better, and his life back on track, because this one is no longer an option.

He has much in his favour. He has family support, his mother, his father and his sister. (Support can take many forms, according to the resources of the supporters, room and board, and being on call for him 24/7 really doesn't need to be on the table.) He does have a job (which he needs to engage with if at all possible), and even if that falls by the wayside, it shows that he has the wherewithal to get a job, and hold down a job, and having done so once, he can do it again.

As to threatening suicide. Someone suggested a handy dandy list of support services - I heartily endorse that.

He doesn’t sound anywhere near ill enough to need sectioning. He just wants to sit round at his sister’s and be waited on hand and foot instead of going to work. He’s taken himself off antidepressants and doesn’t want to do any kind of psychotherapy. The community mental health team aren’t going to be able to do much if he doesn’t want treatment.

your needs and your families needs have changed and you simply cannot support him as you once did. Your dd and you need to come first now. You can still help him but not as you are. His mental health does not trump everyone elses.

I know nothing of mental health (however I must say so many people state they have ''mental health problems'' nowadays - which never was the case a few years ago). However IMO your DB is totally self centred whatever the cause - he is dangerous to you and your family - totally toxic. You cannot cure his problems and he is dumping on you. Does he not know about DH's own very serious recent issues? Does he not care about your DD? Get rid asap.