I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

[inigomontoyahwillcox]

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

He needs to go home OP.
He is arranging his care around being at your house, so in his mind he has already moved in. Spell out to him that this won't be happening. Tell him to his face that if he loses his job he will not be staying with you because you have already warned him, many times.
He's doing that thing that manipulative people do - pretending not to understand that their behaviour is causing distress to someone else. He does understand, but he doesn't care, because he's the star in his own drama.
He doesn't care how ill you are. He doesn't care that his niece is in the middle of exams.
He doesn't care that he is filling your house with the stink of cigarettes. He sees you only as his carer, and if you always rush to be his support, why should he bother to support himself?

I say, first, I don’t like the victim bashing going on. Yes, sure, you have got helping and enabling muddled up, but you aren’t the first, and it’s an easy thing to do. These things creep up on one, IME.

I do agree you need to change priorities but I’m guessing there will be some backlash because your brother is clearly unwell and in ways that make it a challenge for him to think about others ( and of course he has got the idea that he is most important here)

Could you sign up for something that helps you: therapy for your own boundaries, and to help you understand your own responses, for example. A bunch of us here giving you permission (or even orders as some have) to do it differently is great but you need real life support and to learn to put your own oxygen mask on for a bit.

It seems to me that you are stressed and stretched, OP. I hope you can be kind to yourself because when you change what you do, there will be a backlash and you need to be strong enough to stick to your guns.

@inigomontoyahwillcox one word here!! NO!!!! you and your family have had no family life for a long time and this is not fair on them!! He has managed to hold down a job for years so really does not seem to be as bad as family make out. he probably just prefers the company! you need to put a stop to this. when your parents pass away you will be lumbered with your brother and this is not good for your relationship with your husband and your daughter who will eventually become distant. stop prioritising him over them! (I might seem uncaring here but most severely depressed people are unable to hold down a job for any length of time!)

I think you’ve maybe got a bit of a boiled frog thing going on because there is no universe in which he should feel emboldened to complain to you - her mother - that your dad - her grandfather - shouldn’t be mentioning DD’s exams. It also demonstrates how far he is from self awareness about the impact he’s having on her - it’s not just that he doesn’t know he’s doing it, it’s that he actively thinks he is more important than her. You really can’t allow that for her OP.

It’s time to put your daughter first, OP.

Ring your Mum today. Say you can’t cope anymore and she needs to take him today.

Stand firm. It could be the making of him.
Don’t assume you are being cruel.

People who live alone men mostly have no awareness that they are putting others out.
Tell him that having another person in the house doesn’t suit you at this stage in your life and he must go to DMs from now on.

Look up co-dependency

He needs to go home and support doesn't need to stop, but it needs to be given on your terms, ideally not in your house. Request a social care assessments for him.

You NEED to put your DD first. I know that is so v v hard but she is your child and your brother is a grown man.

Request a social care assessments for him.

I agree. These behaviours are so entrenched he’s going to need a lot of support from others to get better. I know from experience that his H.R team will be all over his file given his absence record so I get the worry about him losing his job. If it comes to it then his local authority will house him if he makes himself officially homeless but maybe he could get PIP on top of universal credit which may include housing benefit. Getting ahead of myself now but he does have options.

Please make him leave this week.

Thank you all, so much.

I get the boiling frog analogy, this has happened over a long period of time. To be honest, he got ill first of all when I was 7 and he was 14. I got chicken pox and gave it to him - he has it very badly and got post viral syndrome for years afterwards, this followed into depression. My childhood environment from 7 years old was really focused on him and I can remember many occasions when he would have a proper meltdown, sometimes with me just in the room, and I had no idea what to do (remember on particular time when he just started screaming and hitting his head when I was about 12 once my parents had left the room). So I've grown up thinking of him as fragile and in need of care. He has had long periods of time when he's been fully functional and reasonably capable of looking after himself, but interspersed with periods of time similar to this.

Regardless OP - you are not responsible for him. Rinse. Repeat. You are responsible for your daughter. Rinse repeat. You are married to your husband who deserves to be considered. Rinse. Repeat,

Whatever happens to his home, he is not your responsibility. Your DD is. He is a grown man and you are already at the end of your tether.

He has to start helping himself. You are not responsible for his mental health. He doesn't care about yours!

Sounds like you've born a burden of guilt and responsibility since childhood. You're not responsible for his wellbeing but you are responsible for your daughter.

Your brother has slowly chipped away at his own life, bit by bit, in order to feel the safety and security of your care which he craves. He may not realise it, but what he wants is to reverse his independence so that you step up to reassure him you will always look after him, like a child.

At the same time he is incredibly selfish.
Coming into your bedroom and crying, expecting you to drop everything and pick him up, ignoring the plight of your DH, and having no awareness of your DD’s needs, all proves his total lack of empathy for anybody other than himself. He becomes angry when his own DF points out the needs of your DD.
That is a real red flag you should be very aware of now, before it becomes a manipulation tool he uses more and more.

He is using you. He could use his parents but prefers to be number one in your house instead. No doubt his parents have been tougher on him than you have.

Your parents are right OP. You must listen to them. Your DB must be forced to do the job of hanging on to his independence, his job, his health, himself through his own endeavours. Just as you all have to do. He needs to develop his own strategies instead of crumbling so easily into relying on you as his mum to save him and comfort him like a baby.

He needs to be clearly told there is no security blanket at your house any longer as all three of you have your own problems and living stresses to cope with and his extra needs are a draining you all with a very negative effect. You are all on the cusp of break down yourselves.

I wouldn’t register him with your GP practise.
I would ask your parents to come round and tell him he must access health services in his own area with a view to holding onto his job and pension. If he becomes angry and can’t see reason, then that should only increase your determination to free yourself of the burden he places on you so unnecessarily. He has other options which, for selfish reasons, he prefers not to take up.

It is hard to withdraw your help, but your own family unit must be prioritised. I’m sorry you are so poorly, but please find the strength to ask your parents for help to persuade him to go home again.

It’s your turn to cry OP.
It’s his turn to help you out now.

This OP.
You have grown up thinking that he is your problem.
It's time to disentangle.
💐

Agreed.

I have a family member who became very anxious and unwell. I allowed them to stay on sofa for two weeks. The situation became progressively worse and they became manic/ suicidal. I then had no choice but to have them leave as I have children in house.

The whole thing was absolutely awful, they went to hospital several times to beg to be committed but never was. I had to call police and ambulances to their house several times as they would beg me to or say they were ending it.

I then had to draw a line and tell them they could not come to my house, if they thought they needed ambulance or police then call them (not call me to ask me to call them).

Was very scary to cut them off like this but was the only choice.
Ultimately you have to accept you didn’t break them, you can’t fix them and if they really are determined to harm themselves you can’t stop them.

This person is doing incredibly a year on. They burnt all bridges around them and then had to re-build as no one was protecting them from reality any longer.

My daughter spoke to me a few months later and I was sad to realise she was angry that no one had asked her if this person could stay. I tried my absolute best to shield her from it but she’s right I didn’t ask her about her home.

I am so sorry you are in this situation but I think you should simplify your thought process. Who are you going to protect, your DD or your brother?

This sounds so very hard. You are wonderfully compassion and kind. I do think he needs to go to your parents but wanted to send you a huge hug. You’ve done all you can. Best wishes.

You need to put your husband and your daughter first. He must have the patience of a saint! In a few years your daughter will likely have left home, enjoy these last few years with her and make home somewhere she wants to come back to rather than with a self absorbed uncle dominating things.

Tell him you need to prioritise your daughters GCSE year and he can’t stay at all. He’ll cry and have a tantrum but do it when your parents are coming. Bag his stuff up for them. Change the locks. Finally lay down boundaries or you’ll end up with a husband who will eventually have had enough and moved out and a grown up daughter. Probably with your brother living with you full time, you’ll be his emotional support person but he’ll be happy.

You are not your brothers carer. You are not his parent. You are not responsible for him.

You sound like a genuinely good person OP, and I think this has to be your time to re prioritise. You've given him all you have to give, and he should be nothing but grateful. Time for him to go home, and time for you to get yourself back to good health.
Good luck.

Oh gosh, @inigomontoyahwillcox , that is so telling and poignant. Childhood circumstances that weren't REMOTELY your fault have shaped you to take this extreme and unjust level of responsibility for your brother. It wasn't fair then and it isn't fair now.
You can step out of this, and it doesn't need to undermine the genuine loving care that you have for your brother - which has been overlayered by so many unjust burdens.

I do get the COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL feeling of guilt associated with an illness passing from you to a sibling. There was one childhood illness I had before my sister. She got it worse and for YEARS I felt that I had done this to her. (It wasn't even a contagious illness - just a genetic condition that manifested in me before her - whiuch shows how ready we are to assume responsibility for something that is totally out of our control.

You must set boundaries for him, very very strict ones. You could say, DB, I will have you X times a year for two nights, in a pre-planned way, not as a crisis intervention, not as your carer, as your sister. I want to share time with you but you are responsible for managing your own healthcare and living autonomously.

Jesus, I feel stressed just reading this. He has to go. He has to go to your parents. This is an unbelievable imposition.

Tell him very firmly that this shit has got to stop! You have your own kids and a job and you’re fucking exhausted. He needs to pull his head out of his arse and recognise that there are other people on the planet with needs and start thinking of them for once.

This^
you need to be firm for his own good. His support should be arranged around where he lives. And his life should be adapted due to his health issues but not yours.
You have a child who is relying on you and you have yourself to look after.
And look at it from a different angle- at the moment your support is not actually helping because your brother is not learning to look after himself, he continues to struggle with life. It’s time for a different approach.

He needs to go to your parents, they are getting older so he can at least be useful in helping them out/caring if the worst happens and he ends up jobless.
You need to prioritise your husband and child.
Does your brother seem like he might be neurodivergent? I would wonder if this is coming out as physical symptoms.